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Post by CrapAtRBY on Mar 21, 2014 10:00:05 GMT -8
Long(ish) time lurker, first time poster.
This place seems to have a fair number of "what if..." threads that never get past one page, the thread about psychic being weak to itself for instance, a theorymon thread seems appropriate here
Post a topic in bold and other people discuss it. Simples. Don't expect the best quality discussion from me because as you may have realised by my user name I am CrapAtRBY.
I'll kick things off
Discuss hold items in RBY
A lot of things would run leftovers I guess, Lapras springs to mind as something that would really appreciate leftovers as it only gets Rest as a form of recovery. Ice beam/BSlam/Confuse ray/Substitute could be a good set. Parafuse your opponent and put up a sub and let leftovers take care of the damage then just ice beam/Body slam as appropriate
What would Tauros use? Although Tauros is more of a revenge killer life orb damage isn't ideal, choice items would help in Tauros dittos and versus Snorlax but not much else as your opponent could just switch in Rhydon on a body slam and get a free sub or Zapdos on an EQ and get agility up for free. A choice banded BSlam does about 54%-63% to Chansey
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 21, 2014 10:19:51 GMT -8
Life Orb Tauros - maybe Assault Vest though?
Choice Band Snorlax. The booms...
Choice Band Golem for sure as well.
Leftovers on every specialist except maybe offensive variants of Lapras.
Choice Scarf wouldn't be used too much due to paralysis everywhere, and most things like to switch moves. Very few things in RBY that are in a relevant speed tier are not using supportive moves.
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Post by Agent Syrup on Mar 21, 2014 10:39:11 GMT -8
Oh! Oh! Isn't there an item that allows normal moves to hit Ghosts? I'm sure Persian would love that! That or Choice Band.
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Post by CrapAtRBY on Mar 21, 2014 10:40:01 GMT -8
I'm not sure how Lucky Punch and other crit items would work but they might see some use.
Air Balloon for Rhydon/Golem maybe, mainly Rhydon
Rocky Helmet on Tobybro and Amnesialax
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Post by CrapAtRBY on Mar 21, 2014 10:44:54 GMT -8
Oh! Oh! Isn't there an item that allows normal moves to hit Ghosts? I'm sure Persian would love that! That or Choice Band. I don't know of any item that does that, there is Scrappy, an ability which does that (also allows fighting moves to hit ghosts). Abilities could be an interesting topic, Natural Cure Starmie and Chansey would make the ultimate troll sleep absorbers. Synchronise and Magic Bounce would be hilarious, intimidate on things that are able to switch in on rocks and Tauros would be good. Serene Grace with Body Slam would be awesome |
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 21, 2014 12:28:00 GMT -8
We're pure RBYers, I don't even know about items!  I think it would change the game a lot, but Quick Claw for sweepers is very RBY-ish |
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Post by kel9901 on Mar 21, 2014 21:55:27 GMT -8
noone thought about thick club marowak?
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 22, 2014 1:59:03 GMT -8
noone thought about thick club marowak? Marowak doesn't get Rock Slide or Swords Dance in RBY, and its Special bulk is awful. Still, I guess it's okay. |
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 22, 2014 2:30:46 GMT -8
"OK"?
We're talking about an attack stat 200 points higher than that of Snorlax! Earthquake would shred things apart once Exeggutor and Zapdos are gone.
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Post by Agent Syrup on Mar 22, 2014 13:04:44 GMT -8
Oh my gosh! Thick Club Marowak would be awesome!
And just now I realized: Evolite. Imagine Evolite Kadabra or Graveler!
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Post by David the Chansey on Mar 22, 2014 19:15:06 GMT -8
Eviolite Dragonair ftw
Edit: I've only just read up what Eviolite does (raise Defense and Special Defense). I thought it boosted all stats haha. Excuse my ignorance of Pokemon later then RBY :')
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Post by jorgen on Mar 22, 2014 20:16:35 GMT -8
Golem and Zam kinda depend on their attacking ability, though. Haunter would probably be the best Eviolite NFE because Gengar's attacking abilities are meh whereas his defensive typing is pretty covetable.
I think so, anyway. I'm just spitballing here.
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 22, 2014 20:18:56 GMT -8
"OK"? We're talking about an attack stat 200 points higher than that of Snorlax! Earthquake would shred things apart once Exeggutor and Zapdos are gone. True enough. It's just that it's very slow and almost OHKOed by non-STAB Blizzards, so the slightest chip would allow Starmie or Chansey to counter it - and Flyings have little to fear besides a non-STAB Body Slam. It'd certainly be good, but as in GSC it wouldn't be top-tier. EDIT: Agreed with Jorgen on Haunter being scary with Eviolite, since Gengar uses Night Shade a lot anyway. |
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 23, 2014 3:26:13 GMT -8
Even Marowak's non-STAB Body Slam deals more damage than Snorlax STAB Body Slam. =p
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 23, 2014 5:06:10 GMT -8
Even Marowak's non-STAB Body Slam deals more damage than Snorlax STAB Body Slam. =p I did notice that. |
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Post by cheese on Mar 23, 2014 7:11:03 GMT -8
"OK"? We're talking about an attack stat 200 points higher than that of Snorlax! Earthquake would shred things apart once Exeggutor and Zapdos are gone. True enough. It's just that it's very slow and almost OHKOed by non-STAB Blizzards, so the slightest chip would allow Starmie or Chansey to counter it - and Flyings have little to fear besides a non-STAB Body Slam. It'd certainly be good, but as in GSC it wouldn't be top-tier. EDIT: Agreed with Jorgen on Haunter being scary with Eviolite, since Gengar uses Night Shade a lot anyway. But both Starmie and Chansey would take huge damage (~2/3?) on switching into an EQ, and if they switch into a paraslam they're as good as dead. Marowak also gets Hyper Beam for Zapdos and Eggy. I agree he wouldn't be top tier though, especially as other pokemon would becarrying items too. |
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Post by ruffwoofan on Mar 24, 2014 2:37:40 GMT -8
Sub actually blocking status in a non-stadium environment is a pretty good "what if."
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Post by kel9901 on Mar 25, 2014 14:02:38 GMT -8
Mind if I start a new one?
What if... Hidden Power existed in gen 1?
70 BP, non-normal typing
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 25, 2014 14:40:23 GMT -8
Zapdos OP. Hidden Power Water all day every day.
Rhydon with Hidden Power Bug would also be scary.
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 25, 2014 15:54:33 GMT -8
HP Fighting and HP Bug are the big ones. Submission sucks because it's only useful against Chansey but has recoil and bad accuracy; HP Fighting fixes that right up and gives it to everything to boot. Bug attacks are basically nonexistent in RBY and as such half the meta is weak to them; HP Bug would force a major rethink. Most obvious use is on Mew, but there's plenty of other things that would love a Bug move. Might even make some of the Bug mons viable.
And yeah Electrics with HP Ice/Water, Waters/Ices with HP Electric, etc etc.
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Post by jorgen on Mar 25, 2014 18:23:29 GMT -8
HP Fighting wouldn't be so great. I mean maybe on Lapras and possibly Exeggutor (but the latter would rather have HP Bug for Egg dittos and Jynx!), but other than that most things that could really hurt Chansey with it already have another move to be using that almost equates its power.
Let's not forget HP Ground here. Gengar getting your Persian team down? We've got a fix for that.
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 25, 2014 20:22:58 GMT -8
HP Fighting wouldn't be so great. I mean maybe on Lapras and possibly Exeggutor (but the latter would rather have HP Bug for Egg dittos and Jynx!), but other than that most things that could really hurt Chansey with it already have another move to be using that almost equates its power. Starmie would sure like a SURPRISE HYPER BEAM without a recharge turn. |
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Post by CrapAtRBY on Apr 6, 2014 12:19:17 GMT -8
Okay new topic. Discuss the impact of abilities in RBY, with the abilities the mons have now and theoretical ability-mon combinations that could make a pokemon dominant or raise their usage. (Excluding the obvious like Huge Power)A list of OU pokemon and their abilities as of Gen 5 for referenceAlakazam - Synchronize, Inner Focus, Magic Guard
Chansey - Natural Cure, Serene Grace, Healer
Cloyster - Shell Armour, Skill Link, Overcoat
Dragoite - Inner Focus, Multiscale
Exeggutor - Chlorophyll, Harvest
Gengar - Levitate
Golem - Rock Head, Sturdy, Sand Veil
Jynx- Oblivious, Forewarn, Fry Skin
Lapras - Water Absorb, Hydration, Shell Armour
Persian - Limber, Technician, Unnerve
Rhydon - Lightning Rod, Rock Head, Reckless
Slowbro - Own Tempo, Oblivious, Regenerator
Snorlax - Immunity, Thick Tat, Gluttony
Starmie - Natural Cure, Analytic
Tauros - Intimidate, Anger point, Sheer Force
Zapdos - Pressure, Lightning Rod And a list I've annotated Alakazam - Synchronize, Inner Focus, Magic Guard
Synchronize seems like he best here, it could troll sleep leads, but I think sleep leads would see less use with Natural Cure Starmie and Chansey
Chansey - Natural Cure, Serene Grace, Healer
Both NC and SG seem like good abilities, SG would help with the freeze chance for Ice Beam, but NC seems so good that a SG Chanset would always come with a NC Starmie
Cloyster - Shell Armour, Skill Link, Overcoat
Preventing crits is always useful, the other two are redundant, all Skill link would do is help spike cannon
Dragoite - Inner Focus, Multiscale
Multiscale would be useful maybe, I don't know figures for Blizzard/IB on Dragonite
Exeggutor - Chlorophyll, Harvest
Both redundant
Gengar - Levitate
pls
Golem - Rock Head, Sturdy, Sand Veil
Sturdy could be used with Explosion, I don't know what actually OHKOs Golem. This could be used against you though, I guess it just adds an extra level of mindgames to explosion on both sides
Jynx- Oblivious, Forewarn, Fry Skin
Dry Skin could provide some healing occasionally, Forewarn could maybe help scout for some niche sets, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Lapras - Water Absorb, Hydration, Shell Armour
Preventing Crits is of course useful, Water absorb can provide some ad hoc recovery but I think Shell Armour would be the more consitent choice
Persian - Limber, Technician, Unnerve
Limber duh
Rhydon - Lightning Rod, Rock Head, Reckless
Lightning Rod would make it even more of a Zapdos counter
Slowbro - Own Tempo, Oblivious, Regenerator
Regenerator 2k4eva
Snorlax - Immunity, Thick Fat, Gluttony
Thick Fat is the only useful ability here, but it could be good for Switching in on ice attacks
Starmie - Natural Cure, Analytic
De facto status immunity or a power boost from a thunder wave, pls
Tauros - Intimidate, Anger point, Sheer Force
Anger Point would be high risk high reward, intimidate can help in Tauros dittos
Zapdos - Pressure, Lightning Rod
Lightning Rod would probably be better, but not exactly amazing considering Zapdos is neutral to Electric Some good abilities for mons off the top of my head are Vital Spirit for anything with Rest, Lapras and Slowbro in particular, Tobybro with an ability to prevent crits. Imposter Chansey... Hello base 250 HP Tauros. Your turn now |
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Post by kel9901 on Apr 6, 2014 12:25:05 GMT -8
u can't use vital spirit with rest, rest just fails iirc
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Post by CrapAtRBY on Apr 6, 2014 12:53:05 GMT -8
I remembered it working in Gen 3 for some reason. But yes I googled and vital spirit makes rest fail
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ddx2
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Post by ddx2 on Apr 7, 2014 2:41:32 GMT -8
I've got a question, how do you think things would change if instead of Critical Hit Chance, your speed determined your evasion of attack chance? How would things chance (Assume CH is now a standard percent like in Second Gen and up)?
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Post by magic9mushroom on Apr 7, 2014 5:58:05 GMT -8
I've got a question, how do you think things would change if instead of Critical Hit Chance, your speed determined your evasion of attack chance? How would things chance (Assume CH is now a standard percent like in Second Gen and up)? Slowbro jumps up quite a bit. Explosion use goes down. Dragonite is horribly nerfed. Rest Zapdos probably becomes more viable. Starmie and Zam become much more defensive, and the game as a whole shifts toward stall. |
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Post by cheese on Apr 7, 2014 15:56:33 GMT -8
Yeah, they'll generally be more stall. I think Reflect and Amnesia would be used more.
Do you think that Swift would get a look in under these circumstances?
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Post by magic9mushroom on Apr 7, 2014 19:16:25 GMT -8
Yeah, they'll generally be more stall. I think Reflect and Amnesia would be used more. Do you think that Swift would get a look in under these circumstances? With some Pokemon having 20-25% evasion rates? Probably. |
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ddx2
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Post by ddx2 on Apr 8, 2014 1:53:11 GMT -8
Yeah, they'll generally be more stall. I think Reflect and Amnesia would be used more. Do you think that Swift would get a look in under these circumstances? Would only Slowbro go up, or any Amnesia User? |
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