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Post by Agent Syrup on Jan 21, 2015 21:21:43 GMT -8
Okay so this will be an on going thread where I keep track of all the balancing/technical issues I find in Pokemon Showdown's RBY Random Battle. I also would like to run these ideas by you guys and see what you think. Feel free to add some your self.
Technical
-Piexplode said that all the speed EVs are at max but when I check the opponents speed stat the max is always more than the actual speed. I don't know what causes this, it could be that future gens can reach higher speed levels due to natures or whatever. Either way that needs to be fixed.
-Are all the Pokemon available? I've yet to see Mew or Dragonair...
Balance
-I find that while UU Pokemon definatly are usable the OUs seem to consistently be the ones controlling the pace of the battle. I believe they should be nerfed by 3 levels if not more.
-Some Pokemon have a chance of getting a bogus moveset. I've had an Electrode without Thunder or Thunderbolt and a Parasect with Swords Dance but no physical attack.
-The Amnesia Mewtwo set is clearly better than any other Mewtwo set. If Mewtwo should be at a lower level anytime he is graced with Amnesia.
- All under evolved Pokes (with the possible exceptions of Graveler, Kadabra, Machoke, and Haunter) need a level buff. They simply under preform. Especially all unevolved Pokes in a 3 chain evolution!
-Weedle, Caterpie, Kakuna, Metapod, and Magicarp are all useless. I propose that they are either gotten rid of (they won't be missed), every other Pokemon's level be reduced by 50 and they remain 99, or that anytime a bogus Pokemon is put on your team it is guaranteed that your opponent has a bogus Pokemon too.
-Ditto needs a big level boost!
It would also be cool if repeats of the same type on your team are avoided. It would be even cooler if movesets containing Wrap were made less common, but at this point I'm just getting greedy...
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Post by jorgen on Jan 21, 2015 21:51:36 GMT -8
I think having the chance of getting useless mons is part of the fun. They also have a use in being fodder. If you really wanted to balance it, maybe having a Kakuna somehow increases your odds of Ubers or OUs on your team, and then you have to fodder it to get your advantage.
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Post by Agent Syrup on Jan 21, 2015 22:23:10 GMT -8
Perhaps that idea might be fine with Ubers, but not OU. If OU isn't brought down to everyone's level and treated just like a UU than the amount of balanced match ups in the metagame will be severely lessened. I can't imagine that would improve the game in the long run.
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Post by piexplode on Jan 22, 2015 12:07:11 GMT -8
Okay so this will be an on going thread where I keep track of all the balancing/technical issues I find in Pokemon Showdown's RBY Random Battle. I also would like to run these ideas by you guys and see what you think. Feel free to add some your self. Technical-Piexplode said that all the speed EVs are at max but when I check the opponents speed stat the max is always more than the actual speed. I don't know what causes this, it could be that future gens can reach higher speed levels due to natures or whatever. Either way that needs to be fixed. -Are all the Pokemon available? I've yet to see Mew or Dragonair... Balance-I find that while UU Pokemon definatly are usable the OUs seem to consistently be the ones controlling the pace of the battle. I believe they should be nerfed by 3 levels if not more. -Some Pokemon have a chance of getting a bogus moveset. I've had an Electrode without Thunder or Thunderbolt and a Parasect with Swords Dance but no physical attack. -The Amnesia Mewtwo set is clearly better than any other Mewtwo set. If Mewtwo should be at a lower level anytime he is graced with Amnesia. - All under evolved Pokes (with the possible exceptions of Graveler, Kadabra, Machoke, and Haunter) need a level buff. They simply under preform. Especially all unevolved Pokes in a 3 chain evolution! -Weedle, Caterpie, Kakuna, Metapod, and Magicarp are all useless. I propose that they are either gotten rid of (they won't be missed), every other Pokemon's level be reduced by 50 and they remain 99, or that anytime a bogus Pokemon is put on your team it is guaranteed that your opponent has a bogus Pokemon too. -Ditto needs a big level boost! It would also be cool if repeats of the same type on your team are avoided. It would be even cooler if movesets containing Wrap were made less common, but at this point I'm just getting greedy... Natures in later gens will affect the max speed thing, maybe worth asking Joim to update that. Not everything is available cos not everything has yet received a moveset. In due course every mon will be available. -Some Pokemon have a chance of getting a bogus moveset. I've had an Electrode without Thunder or Thunderbolt and a Parasect with Swords Dance but no physical attack. give a list of all the clear examples you can and then it's not hard to rectify this [Swords Dance should have a check saying if only high crit moves/special attacks/status moves then get a different move, for example] When you get a magikarp, you're permitted for chance to allow you mew+mewtwo, if you don't get it then that can't happen (only can have one). I guess it should be added for Metapod/Kakuna/Caterpie/Weedle. |
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Post by Agent Syrup on Jan 22, 2015 13:06:59 GMT -8
Thanks! So Mew and Mewtwo are intentionally overpowered? That's only two, I can live with that.
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Jan 22, 2015 13:56:27 GMT -8
For what it's worth the only time I had Mewtwo I got a set of Barrier/Thunder Wave/Body Slam/Hyper Beam, so it's not automatically broken. Nidoking without Earthquake was a bummer though.  |
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Post by piexplode on Jan 23, 2015 13:15:43 GMT -8
You can make it so a pokemon has a mandatory move, so giving nidos mandatory earthquake is easy. That a sensible decision?
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Post by Agent Syrup on Jan 23, 2015 19:54:32 GMT -8
Absolutely!  |
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Post by cheese on Jan 25, 2015 14:47:22 GMT -8
I've been playing a lot the last few days and it's loads of fun.
I agree that generally there needs to be a bit more differentiation in levels.
1st evolution of 3 pokemon seem to be a wee bit underpowered, whereas others (esp. Tauros) seem a tad overpowered.
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Post by cheese on Jan 30, 2015 6:29:09 GMT -8
Is it a requirement that pokemon have to have a damaging attack?
I had a game recently where my Hypno only had Counter as a damaging attack, which doesn't really count.
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Post by froggy25 on Feb 1, 2015 14:19:44 GMT -8
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Post by cheese on Feb 2, 2015 11:27:42 GMT -8
Well in all honesty that looks like a complete mess.
Bellsprout/Weepinbell get Sleep Powder as Essential but Victreebel gets Razor Leaf instead?
Raichu has an "Essential" Surf. Why?
Slowbro has no chance of getting Psychic, Withdraw, Reflect etc. Why not, seen as they're all semi-viable in OU, let alone a random match?
Magneton has Thunderbolt as Essential but Magnemite doesn't. Same with Kingler/Krabby and Crabhammer.
Why does Jolteon get an Essential move and not Flareon/Vaporeon?
Blizzard is an Essential move for Omanyte/star. What!?
Amnesia is Essential on Lax. Really?
There's no logic to any of this. Either give every poke a viable "Essential" move or leave them out.
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Post by piexplode on Feb 2, 2015 12:11:57 GMT -8
blizzard is essential on omastar in NU.
lol at lax
go post in the smogon thread lol those are kinda big
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Post by froggy25 on Feb 2, 2015 16:50:27 GMT -8
Flareon doesn't have an essential move because it has only 4 moves listed  |
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Post by Agent Syrup on Feb 2, 2015 22:21:37 GMT -8
All this move nonsense and the NU and LC Pokes still need a level buff....
Maybe RBY2k10 should compile a comprehensive list of how to build the Pokes and submit it to Joim...
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Post by mrpetro on Feb 20, 2015 1:11:56 GMT -8
I have looked at this forum for a while... and I seriously think that you guys should suggest both the RBY2K10 '5 tier ranking system' as a separate metagame and also even RBY+ to the people at showdown, I saw that and thought that it was awesome how each mon was unique and viable. With the random battle released, gen 1 has a bigger following then it has had for a long time on showdown so now is the perfect time to suggest both of these metas as it would get a larger following than usual and have a chance to solidify itself as a RBY2k10 section on showdown.
If they can do hackmons and other things like that, then they can do RBY+. Also having more than just one viable RBY teir would make the gen look more attractive to newcomers and even returning veterens.
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Post by piexplode on Feb 20, 2015 12:29:03 GMT -8
I have looked at this forum for a while... and I seriously think that you guys should suggest both the RBY2K10 '5 tier ranking system' as a separate metagame and also even RBY+ to the people at showdown, I saw that and thought that it was awesome how each mon was unique and viable. With the random battle released, gen 1 has a bigger following then it has had for a long time on showdown so now is the perfect time to suggest both of these metas as it would get a larger following than usual and have a chance to solidify itself as a RBY2k10 section on showdown. If they can do hackmons and other things like that, then they can do RBY+. Also having more than just one viable RBY teir would make the gen look more attractive to newcomers and even returning veterens. what's 2k10's ranking system? fwiw their RBY main meta system is copied onto PO, but the PS following of RBY is very low quality irrespective of size - when you also factor 2k10's tiering's made for no-wrap, there's really absolutely no point in sub-metas at this time RBYplus - they won't code this themselves, at least until every gen has full and proper coding. GSC's stilll very far behind and RBY's notably imperfect (although to pretty much exactly the same level as PO's) so this will be a while. I've mentioned before if people want to put in the work and learn the way to code this in javascript I'm fully happy to support it on my server. Another suggestion I'll make is to speak to the Other Meta players of PS (through the room or via pms to user like The Eevee General who work on OM submissions to the subforum and see if you can post it) and maybe you can attract coders. I can give a couple of names of people who might be able to help but it's not my area of expertise really. |
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Feb 20, 2015 16:39:03 GMT -8
There's certainly a point in submetas at this point in time. 2K10 has fine metagames without Wrap moves allowed and PO has good metas where they are allowed, the only potential flaw being Dragonair's tiering in NU.
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Post by piexplode on Feb 20, 2015 20:21:47 GMT -8
ayy I agree more or less with all of that
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Post by mrpetro on Feb 20, 2015 20:29:06 GMT -8
what's 2k10's ranking system? fwiw their RBY main meta system is copied onto PO, but the PS following of RBY is very low quality irrespective of size - when you also factor 2k10's tiering's made for no-wrap, there's really absolutely no point in sub-metas at this time RBYplus - they won't code this themselves, at least until every gen has full and proper coding. GSC's stilll very far behind and RBY's notably imperfect (although to pretty much exactly the same level as PO's) so this will be a while. I've mentioned before if people want to put in the work and learn the way to code this in javascript I'm fully happy to support it on my server. Another suggestion I'll make is to speak to the Other Meta players of PS (through the room or via pms to user like The Eevee General who work on OM submissions to the subforum and see if you can post it) and maybe you can attract coders. I can give a couple of names of people who might be able to help but it's not my area of expertise really. By 'ranking system' I meant tiering, all I meant was to have "[Gen 1] OU" and "[RBY2K10] OU/BL/...", it could work all you need is a clause that bans trapping moves and it is done. In the regular OU dragonair would not be in NU and arbok and others would be higher, but in 2k10 they would be in NU, it is just a different tiering and one extra clause and it would add lots of variety and depth to a gen that deserves more attention. RBY+ was just an interesting idea I had, not really a massive suggestion I just thought it would be cool to see and play. |
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Post by piexplode on Feb 20, 2015 23:34:01 GMT -8
havin the 2k10 tag would probably do more to confuse than help though
but ye they are worthwhile havin available
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