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Dec 18, 2011 20:30:50 GMT -8
Post by WaterWizard on Dec 18, 2011 20:30:50 GMT -8
If you have a Hitmonlee w/o Meditate, you're not doing it right...
Hi Jump Kick, Hyper Beam, Body Slam, Meditate
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Dec 18, 2011 20:36:46 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 18, 2011 20:36:46 GMT -8
Smogon's RBY section is not only outdated, but was composed lazily. There aren't even any BL Pokemon--that's just stupid.
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Dec 18, 2011 20:44:29 GMT -8
Post by jorgen on Dec 18, 2011 20:44:29 GMT -8
lol removing BL was an update exactly for the reason that people wouldn't take Smogon's UU banlist as something authoritative
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Dec 18, 2011 20:48:05 GMT -8
Post by WaterWizard on Dec 18, 2011 20:48:05 GMT -8
yes, I am thankful for the BL move to UU. jorgen or EW did that, correct? whoever it was, I am grateful. the next step is to move our UU's to NU and our NUs to Hades or something. lol
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Dec 18, 2011 20:50:19 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 18, 2011 20:50:19 GMT -8
Just put Farfetch'd in OU and be done with RBY.
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Zilch
Member
What's in the box?
Posts: 561
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Dec 18, 2011 21:00:34 GMT -8
Post by Zilch on Dec 18, 2011 21:00:34 GMT -8
the next step is to move our UU's to NU and our NUs to Hades or something. lol Fearow does not approve.
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Dec 18, 2011 21:38:33 GMT -8
Post by jorgen on Dec 18, 2011 21:38:33 GMT -8
yes, I am thankful for the BL move to UU. jorgen or EW did that, correct? whoever it was, I am grateful. the next step is to move our UU's to NU and our NUs to Hades or something. lol Pretty sure that was Hipmonlee.
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Dec 18, 2011 22:13:12 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 18, 2011 22:13:12 GMT -8
I'd argue against Hitmonlee using Meditate unless he's more designed for all-purpose usage. All three of Hi Jump Kick, Jump Kick and Double Kick are useful for the three super Normals, and Body Slam helps for switch-ins. Hitmonlee doesn't really get opportunities to use Meditate, and it's not too helpful in support vs Normals. His CH chance is also pretty high too.
Also, Hitmonlee doesn't learn Hyper Beam
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Dec 18, 2011 22:39:01 GMT -8
Post by WaterWizard on Dec 18, 2011 22:39:01 GMT -8
poor guy. what waste... PLUS
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Dec 19, 2011 2:55:19 GMT -8
Post by hipmonlee on Dec 19, 2011 2:55:19 GMT -8
Nitpicking hitmonlees analysis is pretty absurd. I mean, the substitute mention should definitely not exist, but it isnt like your suggestion is actually a significant improvement. That isnt really the sort of thing I have a problem with..
There is some really weird shit in smogon's analyses though, at some point snorlax got listed as a counter to basically every single pokemon. I dont really know when or why that happened, but, it's weird. Snorlax is not an Alakazam counter, and while Snorlax will do pretty well against Dewgong, I am not sure why it deserves special mention, especially compared with something like Chansey..
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Dec 19, 2011 7:04:58 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 19, 2011 7:04:58 GMT -8
I think the Hitmonlee analysis (wasn't the best example to choose from) was to show that most of the analyses are riddled with minor flaws. I mean, suggesting Fire Blast on Snorlax as a way of hitting Jynx, saying that Gyarados is good because it can use Thunderbolt (and not even including Hydro Pump in "options," not to mention the main set), Double-Edge as an option on Cloyster to dissuade the opponent from switching into Gengar, and so on, are egregious displays of laziness and/or lack of knowledge. I don't know how many people wrote them (I'm going to say not too many, considering that I caught them using THE Alternative as a source at one point), but a good amount of them were probably churned out.
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Dec 19, 2011 12:42:40 GMT -8
Post by hipmonlee on Dec 19, 2011 12:42:40 GMT -8
If that source point thing was actually something that you didnt make up, and you really didnt help yourself in that regard, it would have been a case of Noobster trying to troll you, rather than laziness.
I think a lot have been updated over time by people who dont know the first thing about rby. There was a big style change, and with that I think came some accidental meaning changes. But yeah, wow, it does actually suggest fireblast on lax for jynx.. That is hilarious..
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Dec 19, 2011 12:50:00 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 12:50:00 GMT -8
Yep...
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Dec 19, 2011 12:59:47 GMT -8
Post by Isa on Dec 19, 2011 12:59:47 GMT -8
Also for Cloyster and Lapras and they're *1 vs. Fire Blast. What's wrong with Thunderbolt in that case?
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Dec 19, 2011 13:33:46 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 19, 2011 13:33:46 GMT -8
If that source point thing was actually something that you didnt make up, and you really didnt help yourself in that regard, it would have been a case of Noobster trying to troll you, rather than laziness. You either don't know what I'm talking about, or you're suggesting that the prolific amount of flaws exhibited in the RBY section exist because some loser was trying to troll me. Either way, it only further highlights how crappy Smogon's RBY section is (making an entire section of your website look like a joke just to try to troll me? I don't know how that's supposed to work, but I'm flattered, I guess). Oh, and this is pretty terrible too: www.smogon.com/rb/pokemon/weezing
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Dec 19, 2011 13:46:14 GMT -8
Post by WaterWizard on Dec 19, 2011 13:46:14 GMT -8
Wow, that Weezing write-up is one of the worst I've ever seen. The closing paragraph alone is amazing. No one in UU can 2HKO Weezing with Psychic... And calling Wigglytuff a powerful special attacker was really the coup de grace... She 3-4HKOs him... Yikes!
And yeah, the current Smogon RBY write-ups were obviously not written by a group of experts, but by a large number of randoms who likely have never played more than 10 games of RBY OU, let alone the other metas. There are a handful of great RBYers on Smogon but they clearly aren't the ones who wrote these reviews.
~
And as for the Arbok thing, that's a classic story. Copying a rarely-looked-at write-up like that doesn't scream trolling to me. I do wish GGFan had taken screen shots though. It's doomed to myth.
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Dec 19, 2011 13:49:51 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 19, 2011 13:49:51 GMT -8
My favorite so far is Dewgong: www.smogon.com/rb/pokemon/dewgong"Dewgong's main objective with this set is quite obvious. It's meant to attack using special moves." And as for the Arbok thing, that's a classic story. Copying a rarely-looked-at write-up like that doesn't scream trolling to me. I do wish GGFan had taken screen shots though. It's doomed to myth. Smodrones admitted it. But at this point, I have no reason to make anything like that up (I certainly don't give enough of a shit). The only ones who denied it at the time were idiot sycophants from Smogon, and their retort was that I was the one who stole from them. Of course, they were too stupid to know that some of THE Alternative's analyses actually predate Smogon's (Raichu and Gyarados, for example, weren't posted on Smogon until after I made mine). Anyways, I brought it up because it seems like most of the authors barely played RBY before (if ever), and needed a source that they could refer to while they mechanically produced erroneous movesets accompanied by disillusioning analyses. I was the only other easily accessible source; they just forgot to edit their direct stealing at one point. In retrospect, it was kind of funny considering how I fucked up similarly three years earlier. I guess karma isn't limited to GameFAQs.
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Dec 19, 2011 15:35:05 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 15:35:05 GMT -8
Well anyway, let's focus on what's ahead. For Pokemon analyses there's my guide on GameFAQs (though now a bit outdated and has some errors), and the boards here.
Pokemon Online was supposed to come out with RBY yesterday, but I guess it got delayed again. =(
GGFan, are you going to be playing RBY again, and Plus with us?
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Dec 19, 2011 15:38:14 GMT -8
Post by hipmonlee on Dec 19, 2011 15:38:14 GMT -8
The arbok thing was such a waste of a line, but I could never trace it back to where it came from, it wasnt on the analysis on the forums, so I figured noobster had added it himself, and probably taken it from your site, but I couldnt prove that since you had clearly edited your analysis after you saw ours, and lets be honest, your credibility on smogon is not high.
If anyone has admitted it, it could only be their suspicions.. I am pretty sure Noobster hasnt been around to come clean about this, and as far as I can tell, he was the only one who could have known. The nature of the line, since it is, really, a throwaway line with no content whatsoever, I am pretty sure it was just the opinion section, opinions arent really hard to come up with. If it was stolen by someone on smogon, it could only have been done to get some kind of reaction from GGFan..
I think I will make a thread on smogon about fixing our analyses.. Probably a better place to do it than here.
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Dec 19, 2011 15:50:01 GMT -8
Post by Isa on Dec 19, 2011 15:50:01 GMT -8
Well anyway, let's focus on what's ahead. For Pokemon analyses there's my guide on GameFAQs (though now a bit outdated and has some errors), and the boards here. Pokemon Online was supposed to come out with RBY yesterday, but I guess it got delayed again. =( Thing is, nobody has any clue whatsoever where Nixeagle, lead developer, is hiding. Ete (eric the espeon) and Latios, two other mods, are also missing. Again, nobody knows where they are. Regarding your guide, Icy, it's still top notch although it could indeed do with a minor update. What really sets it apart from others is the damage calculations provided. If you were to make guides on the PO Wiki, be sure to include those, because that's what's making the analyses unique.
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Dec 19, 2011 16:10:08 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 16:10:08 GMT -8
The ones here are better though since more time were put into each of them and I spent some time analyzing more in-depthly how each Pokemon can find a way to be viable in OU.
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Dec 19, 2011 16:54:22 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 19, 2011 16:54:22 GMT -8
The original source can be found here: lionheartggfan.proboards.com/inde....play&thread=619I don't think it matters at this point which loser you think tried to elicit a response from me, since your conjecture isn't reliable considering that you're a Smogon user. But there isn't much more that needs to be said about the incident, as I've already pointed out that Smogon should have been a bit more discreet. One of the main reasons that I made the issue public was because, not too long before the incident, Smogon had caught SmogonJr (only remember the site's popular nickname, sorry,), stealing from their RSE analyses. Maybe I was just a little surprised that the self-proclaimed authority on Pokemon would steal (I use this word facetiously here) from analyses that belonged to a niche community created by the nefarious GGFan. You'll say otherwise; however, you don't really have any credibility, no offense. Also, I didn't edit the original analysis until 2009. Well anyway, let's focus on what's ahead. For Pokemon analyses there's my guide on GameFAQs (though now a bit outdated and has some errors), and the boards here. Pokemon Online was supposed to come out with RBY yesterday, but I guess it got delayed again. =( GGFan, are you going to be playing RBY again, and Plus with us? One of the things I'd like to see--not for my sake, but to ascertain the potential of this board--is an analysis section. I know there's the Pokemon Discussion board, but they're not the same. Analyses written by people who have a nuanced understanding of the game will enhance its credibility as a competitive medium. Other people obviously don't share my perception, but I feel that the most successful forums don't advise people to go somewhere else for analyses. To me, that's saying that you should go somewhere else entirely. If you have analyses on your FAQ, you should post them here. You can edit what needs to be edited. And as for a comeback, only time will tell. My departure was kind of bitter-sweet: on one hand, it was sort of a fitting way to go out, with my assuming the role of the Pokemon villain that I'm so used to; however, it could have been better. And then there was Hector Gold, who had so much potential. We'll see.
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Dec 19, 2011 17:58:47 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 17:58:47 GMT -8
Actually, that's a good point. Most of the information posted in those threads are based on the assumption that the player knows the basics already, and as said before, we tend to train and teach newer players outside of the boards (on Netbattle).
Would anyone else be interested in writing analyses here? I know that we've already had some people writing on the PO Wiki, but it wouldn't hurt to have our own here. We could also always have them in both places anyway, except the Wiki's are more public and can be edited by anyone.
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Dec 19, 2011 19:00:58 GMT -8
Post by jorgen on Dec 19, 2011 19:00:58 GMT -8
Go for it. Not going to detract from anything imo, and I feel like PO's analyses should be tailored to Stadium anyway b/c that's what they're implementing at first.
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Dec 19, 2011 19:15:28 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 19:15:28 GMT -8
Also a good point, we could have ours be in-game RBY, and PO Wiki's be under Stadium mechanics.
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Dec 19, 2011 19:27:34 GMT -8
Post by WaterWizard on Dec 19, 2011 19:27:34 GMT -8
The PO analyses would need to be updated to in-game eventually, since Stadium has never been and will not be the standard.
I suggest making a separate subboard, separate from the current pokemon specific subboard.
I would call the new sub board "Pokemon Analyses" and change the existing one to "Pokemon Discussions" (and keep the third subboard, "Data Compilations").
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Dec 19, 2011 20:48:02 GMT -8
Post by GGFan on Dec 19, 2011 20:48:02 GMT -8
I started writing a Snorlax analysis a few months ago, but got busy and lazy. I might write one or two before the break is over.
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Dec 19, 2011 21:12:30 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Dec 19, 2011 21:12:30 GMT -8
I'm totally fine with making it, but are we actually going to get analyses done. I don't want to have to write them all, lol.
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