Jolteon & Zapdos - How Do You Pull This Off?

[pocket]

So many years ago, I saw ipl win a Smogon Tour with a Jolteon & Zapdos offensive core. Ever since I saw that, I decided that I wanted to pull the same stunt one day. Finally, I got around in making it, but everything I try seem to fail miserably. The main issue - I honestly can't afford to double up on 2 Electrics. Also, Jolteon and Zapdos get crippled or walled by Zam, Chansey, and Golem / Rhydon. Basically I need to use my 4 slots to take care of these walls, absorb sleep, and deal with Tauros / Snorlax / Exeggutor / Gengar / Jynx / etc.

Obviously I will be including Tauros, so that leaves me 3 spots. So now I have 3 Pokemon that really doesn't see much use until late game, which puts a lot of weight on my other 3 members.

In the end, I chose Reflect Alakazam and Counter Chansey for special-sponging as well as somewhat threatening Tauros / Snorlax. I also included Snorlax that can readily remove paralyzed Alakazam and Chansey with Hyper Beam and lure and take out Golem / Rhydon

I feel like I got most of the ground covered with the following lineup: Jolteon - Alakazam - Chansey - Snorlax - Tauros - Zapdos. However, 1 major issue remains - who do I take the sleep? If I let Zam take a sleep, I would be hard-pressed against the special onslaught of the opponent. If I let Jolteon to sleep, I am compromising the Jolteon - Zapdos dual offense. I could possibly add another Psychic Pokemon like Exeggutor over Snorlax to further beef up my team's weakness to Psychic, but then my team becomes overly special-oriented and more vulnerable in getting walled by Zam and Chansey.

Could anyone having experience with this strategy share their knowledge about the execution of this team? Jolteon feels more like a weak link than part of a synergistic offensive core... At this rate I'm just gonna drop Jolteon for a standard mon.

[WaterWizard]

No one on your team can switch in on Rhydon. He will tear you apart. Swap Snorlax (or possibly Chansey) with Starmie/Eggy/Slowbro...

[pocket]

I know I have problem with Rhydon / Golem, and I can easily alleviate the problem by adding Eggy. However, even with teams without Rhydon / Golem I seem to have a difficult time pulling this off...

[garrinred]

Use Jolteon, Zapdos, Tauros, and Alakazam.

That leaves two slots. You should probably have a sleeper. I reccomend Eggy unless you have a lot of skill at using Gar. Jynx is another option. Sing Chansey is hillarious, and usually gets at least two Sing attempts before even getting touched.

So for those two slots, maybe try out:
*Eggy/Starmie - leaves you without Chansey, but can fight Zam anyway. You lead the Starmie. Can't really fight opposing Chansey.
*Eggy/Lax - You lead the Zam and if it gets slept, it gets slept. Run stoss on it or Kinesis if you are feeling gimmicky. You fight opposing Zam with yours or with Zapdos, depending on the opponent's set.
*Starmie/Chansey - You lead the Zam again, save Starmie for late game. Give Chansey Sing.
*Eggy/Golem - Play mind games. Lots and lots of mind games.
*Slowbro/Something
*Eggy/Chansey

Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. :-P Either way, experiment and practice a lot.

Edit: Pin Missile vs. Exeggutor could give you the lucky break you need, especially if you lead the Jolteon.

[hipmonlee]

Try earthquake + surf snorlax. EQ against chansey as though you are predicting a counter, then hopefully it can take out Golem.

I would lead with the Zapdos, and try and do the first turn switch to Eggy. Then sacrifice zapdos, so they think it is safe to explode golem or at least use it against lax. You probably need Starmie for that, to give it something to explode on. Zapdos, Eggy, Snorlax, Starmie, Jolteon, Tauros or Chansey.. It could work pretty well if they dont have a golem.

But really it seems more trouble than it is worth. Jolteon just isnt THAT good..

You could try it the other way round but it would look suspicious.

[brookman]

Let's not forget how much different the game/our players are now. Did he use double electric through the entire tournament???

[garrinred]

Hipnomlee has really good stuff. And the Snorlax EQ catches both Golem and Gar often enough to be funny. Leading with Zapdos begs for a Gar/Jynx lead though, and the problem is not solved by a turn 1 switch to Eggy at all.

I remember a battle I once had with some old RBY player whose name I can't remember, and he used a Dodrio lead to set up his Zapdos. It actually worked really well. It's slower than Zam and Gar and Starmie, which sucks, but it can take down Jynx and Eggy beautifully. Its real purpose was to lure out Golem, and it was very good at it. In the end, it's probably not worth it, especially if you're also using Jolteon on the same team, but it's fun to think about. ^_^

[pocket]

Thanks, Garrin Red and Hipmonlee for some tips! Dodrio does sound very interesting, since it also provides the offensive presence that the team otherwise lacks. Maybe this will allow me to remove Snorlax for Eggy .

Yea, I thought of EQ + Surf Snorlax, but right now I am trying Surf + Hyper Beam. I really like the ability to knock out Chansey and Zam without exploding / relying on fps, and I have a Zam on my team to easily neutralize Gengar.

[garrinred]

As far as I've seen, EQ on Snorlax is usually a check-hit. It checks for Counter, Gengar, and Golem/Rhydon, all in one easy hit that still damages Chansey. It will also do ok damage to all switch-ins not named Eggy or Zapdos. Surf is an easy kill on Golem/Rhydon, but lacks these other benefits. Hyper Beam does what you want it to, and does it well, but only after you know Golem/Rhydon is dead. And Gar can come in and laugh, but you probably won't have that problem very much.

Also Zam's prescence will hardly "easily neutralize Gengar", at least not if that Gengar is in the hands of an experienced player. You've seen what I can do with it, and there are others who are signigicantly better than me. :-P

[brookman]

been playing jolt/zap since I saw this post and I have to say, its definitely hard; especially when the other player realizes what you're playing. Anyway . . .The set I had the most success with so far is zam/tauros/egg/bro. I haven't really played vs a wide variety of teams but . . . egg is basically the most important mon on the team.

Obviously, scouting for and removing the golem is priority #1. I'll either try to para zam early so he can absorb sleep or I'll feed jolteon/zapdos to sleep and that way it might make the opponent a little more loose with their ground. It's definitely hard to cover everything since you're sacrificing two slots to pokemon who can be shut down just by bringing in golem.

Basically, this is not a standard team. jolt/zap's success hinges more-so on team vs team more than usual because your options are more limited than usual, by definition. Essentially, its either a gambit for game 1 or a counter-pick. Its definitely a fun challenge to play "remove the rock/ground" though.


tl;dr: The team has a lot of potential but you have to know what you're up against. All four support mons have to be geared specifically towards what you're playing against and any gap in type-coverage is going to be exploited till you have nothing left but electrics staring down golem.
</IMBE>

[pocket]

Yea, I know, without EQ Snorax is sort of like a slow Persian, but I really enjoy the power of its Hyper Beam that easily checks a paralyzed Chansey (without Reflect ) and paralyzed Alakazam before Reflect is up. Without EQ, dealing with Counter Chansey would be difficult, but I will take the risk. It wouldn't matter if Chansey in HB range anyways.

As for Gengar, I have Zam that can easily soak up the hits. If it explodes on Zam then that's good for Snorlax.

brookman, your post was very insightful. I am sort of relieved that the sense of challenge was not misplaced. I see that you have essentially doubled-up on Ground protection with Slowbro and Exeggutor. However, I feel like you would have trouble killing Golem with this lineup, because Exeggutor and Slowbro are only forcing Golem out. I think there needs to be an effective lure for Golem in order for this strategy to work. I would probably try an identical line-up as you, except remove Slowbro for Chansey / Snorlax, both of which lures Golem and Rhydon and dent it hard with Ice Beam / Surf. I'd probably go with Chansey, because with Slowbro gone, STAB Blizzard spam will hurt a lot.

Also what set do you use for Jolteon? Water Wizard recommended Double-Kick, Sand Attack, Thunder Wave, and Thunderbolt, which I have been using. Pin Missle is cool to take a good third of Eggy's health, but otherwise pretty useless. When I had Jolteon as a lead I also tried Toxic > Double-Kick. I think a 12% residual damage every turn Golem switches in is a pretty reliable way of bringing it to KO range for Tauros's Blizzard and Chansey's Ice Beam, as well as just steadily weakening Golem in general.

Also, how do you usually utilize Jolteon? Garrin Red said that he used it to soak up Tauros's Hyper Beam which is pretty cool. I guess it can also take sleep, like you said, to encourage Golem-saccing.

Thanks for sharing your experience, brookman. I really wanted to hear people's personal experience in using this strategy. Would you say that Jolt / Zap is at a disadvantage even against a team without Golem / Rhydon?

[Isa]

Toxic on Golem doesn't do that much. He'll just boom anyway. I'd rather have Sand-Attack or DKick.

[pocket]

It's not that easy to remove Golem once my opponent knows that I have a Jolteon or a Zapdos.

DKick is a perpetual mind-game. In the case of Toxic, you only have to predict once to poison Golem. Even if I switch into my Exeggutor only to force Golem out, Golem would lose 25% of its HP I think (12.5% when switching in, 12.5% hitting Eggy). Toxic may actually be helpful on brookman's Slowbro / Eggy line-up, because now he doesn't have to worry about luring in Golem to kill it, since PSN passive damage would take its toll on Golem.

If I remove Double-Kick for Toxic, then Sand Attack can be a nuisance to Golem once it gets poisoned. If I remove Sand Attack for Toxic, Jolteon can further damage Golem while also being able to hit Chansey hard.

[Zilch]

Poison actually does 6.25% in RBY, not 12.5%, so essentially you're only losing a mere 1/16 of your HP every time you take (non-Toxic) poison damage. Not terribly useful.

[pocket]

Ugh, that's unimpressive. Thanks for the correction, Zilch, since I wasn't sure. However, even 12.5% after 2 turns can go a long way imo. I'd probably add Double-Kick in Jolteon's arsenal to speed the Golem-killing process, though.

[brookman]

I definitely experienced the the hit-and-run hopelessness when attempting to remove golem. As for your suggestion of chan/lax over bro, I actually tried both mons with varying sets (sing/toss on chansey, and a multitude of random lax sets, none really provided the same support as slowbro.

On jolteon, bolt/wave/mimic/dk/pm I'm not really fond of sand-attack personally.



using rhydon/golem ourselves could prove useful, probably golem for the extra speed. Rhydon does learn surf tho. . .

[t3h Icy]

Rhydon's Surf vs Golem and other Rhydon is still a 2HKO, but does do more damage than Earthquake. It's a possible 4th move if you don't like Substitute, Hyper Beam, etc.

Jolteon + Zapdos can be rough for Ground-less teams since they spread Paralysis on everything and have a lot of winning match-ups one on one. With them against Golem and Rhydon teams, you have to slowly take them out since once the opponent sees you have Electrics, they'll be uptight about using them in dangerous situations. You can use this to your advantage since switching out is much more common and have their Golem vs your Exeggutor for example, and then following up with Explosion, another switch, etc. Use Jolteon and Zapdos to pressure your opponent into dumb things, or otherwise do a quick KO to their Grounds.

But likewise, the opponent can do that to you. When you have your team built around using double Electric and they're becoming useless, you're fighting 4v6 and with Pokemon like Slowbro and Exeggutor, you won't be winning. If the opponent can take hits on switch outs to generate enough damage on Slowbro and Exeggutor (since both are kind of sloppy on healing), it won't matter if the opponent's Pokemon are fainting since they'll have a 1.5x quantitative advantage (3v5 counting Sleep if not an Electric).

Surfing Starmie could work as a way to get an unexpected OHKO, but even the threat of a possible Blizzard will probably keep Golem and Rhydon running. Try something like Victreebel, where you can pressure switch outs with something dangerous (Swords Dance), or else threaten to get a OHKO on Golem and Rhydon. Subsmoke does this (though with different Pokemon) and Consumptus used this in tournament against me and it worked really well (against other Pokemon like Chansey and Alakazam). However, if you guess wrong with Razor Leaf/Swords Dance, Victreebel may be in trouble. You could also do this with Kingler and Amnesia Snorlax (1x Amnesia + Ice Beam can't OHKO though).

[pocket]

brookman, Sand Attack aint too bad on a Pokemon that doesn't have much else going for it. One Sand Attack drops a perfectly accurate move down to 66%, which is quite a gamble. I'd say it helps spreading paralysis if the opponent doesn't have a Ground type. There are definitely other viable choices, like you have mentioned, though. Pin Missle's good to threaten Eggy, Agility restores paralyzed Jolteon's Speed, and Thunder does ton of damage on neutral opponents (despite Jolt's 25% crit-rate, it doesn't beat Thunder's 70% accuracy).

Thanks, Icy! I really like the Swords Dancer idea to punish Grounds from switching out. Since Jolt + Zap sacrifices some reliable defense for offense, it makes sense to have Pokemon that facilitates offensive pressure. I think I usually tend to lose especially with this team when I am on the defensive.

Not too sure if Amnesia Lax really forces Golem out. Usually Snorlax brings in Golem, which is a good thing. I may try Amnesia Lax, but it usually requires at least 1 turn of Amnesia before it could dish out damage (unless it has Body Slam). Ice Beam should KO Golem after some residual damage, but for a clean OHKO, I'd probably go with Blizzard.

[t3h Icy]

Amnesia Snorlax should spook Golem/Rhydon since most have Ice Beam.

Blizzard is a OHKO after one Amnesia guaranteed, but PP can be an issue. Surf is an accurate alternative, but you lose coverage.

[brookman]

here is a test match from earlier:

SPOILER: Click to show

Battle Log:
Battle Mode: Red/Blue/Yellow
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Self-KO Clause
Rule: Apply PP Ups
Rule: Battle Timeout
Rule: Unrated
Rule: Evasion Clause
Jzap vs jynx. Begin!
Jzap sent out Alakazam (Lv.100 Alakazam)!
jynx sent out Gengar (Lv.100 Gengar)!

Begin Turn #1
jynx withdrew jynx's Gengar!
jynx sent out Chansey (Lv.100 Chansey)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Alakazam used Psychic!
(18% damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #1
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP
jynx's Chansey: 82% HP

Begin Turn #2
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Alakazam!
Jzap sent out Exeggutor (Lv.100 Exeggutor)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(134 damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
End of turn #2
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP
jynx's Chansey: 82% HP

Begin Turn #3
jynx withdrew jynx's Chansey!
jynx sent out Gengar (Lv.100 Gengar)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Exeggutor used Psychic!
(61% damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
End of turn #3
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP
jynx's Gengar: 39% HP

Begin Turn #4
jynx's Gengar used Hypnosis!
Jzap's Exeggutor fell asleep!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Exeggutor woke up!
---------------------------------
End of turn #4
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP
jynx's Gengar: 39% HP

Begin Turn #5
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Exeggutor!
Jzap sent out Alakazam (Lv.100 Alakazam)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Gengar used Hypnosis!
jynx's Gengar's attack missed!
---------------------------------
End of turn #5
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP
jynx's Gengar: 39% HP

Begin Turn #6
jynx withdrew jynx's Gengar!
jynx sent out chanchan (Lv.100 Jynx)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Alakazam used Psychic!
(42% damage)
A critical hit!
It's not very effective...
jynx's chanchan's Special fell!
---------------------------------
End of turn #6
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP
jynx's chanchan: 58% HP

Begin Turn #7
Jzap's Alakazam used Psychic!
(29% damage)
It's not very effective...
jynx's chanchan's Special fell!
---------------------------------
jynx's chanchan used Lovely Kiss!
Jzap's Alakazam fell asleep!
---------------------------------
End of turn #7
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP (Slp)
jynx's chanchan: 29% HP

Begin Turn #8
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Alakazam!
Jzap sent out Slowbro (Lv.100 Slowbro)!
---------------------------------
jynx's chanchan used Mimic!
jynx's chanchan learned Amnesia!
---------------------------------
End of turn #8
Jzap's Slowbro: 393 HP
jynx's chanchan: 29% HP

Begin Turn #9
jynx withdrew jynx's chanchan!
jynx sent out Chansey (Lv.100 Chansey)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Slowbro used Surf!
(13% damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #9
Jzap's Slowbro: 393 HP
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP

Begin Turn #10
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Slowbro!
Jzap sent out Alakazam (Lv.100 Alakazam)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Thunder Wave!
But it failed!
---------------------------------
End of turn #10
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP (Slp)
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP

Begin Turn #11
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Alakazam!
Jzap sent out Exeggutor (Lv.100 Exeggutor)!
---------------------------------
jynx withdrew jynx's Chansey!
jynx sent out Tauros (Lv.100 Tauros)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #11
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP
jynx's Tauros: 100% HP

Begin Turn #12
jynx withdrew jynx's Tauros!
jynx sent out chanchan (Lv.100 Jynx)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Exeggutor used Sleep Powder!
jynx's chanchan fell asleep!
---------------------------------
End of turn #12
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP
jynx's chanchan: 29% HP (Slp)

Begin Turn #13
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Exeggutor!
Jzap sent out Tauros (Lv.100 Tauros)!
---------------------------------
jynx withdrew jynx's chanchan!
jynx sent out Chansey (Lv.100 Chansey)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #13
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP

Begin Turn #14
jynx withdrew jynx's Chansey!
jynx sent out Rhydon (Lv.100 Rhydon)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Tauros used Earthquake!
(37% damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
End of turn #14
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 63% HP

Begin Turn #15
jynx withdrew jynx's Rhydon!
jynx sent out Starmie (Lv.100 Starmie)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Tauros used Blizzard!
(11% damage)
It's not very effective...
---------------------------------
End of turn #15
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #16
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Tauros!
Jzap sent out Exeggutor (Lv.100 Exeggutor)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Starmie used Thunder Wave!
Jzap's Exeggutor is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #16
Jzap's Exeggutor: 259 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #17
jynx's Starmie used Ice Beam!
(127 damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Exeggutor is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #17
Jzap's Exeggutor: 132 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #18
jynx's Starmie used Ice Beam!
(130 damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Exeggutor is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #18
Jzap's Exeggutor: 2 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #19
jynx's Starmie used Thunderbolt!
(2 damage)
It's not very effective...
Jzap's Exeggutor fainted!
Jzap sent out Jolteon (Lv.100 Jolteon)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #19
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #20
jynx withdrew jynx's Starmie!
jynx sent out Rhydon (Lv.100 Rhydon)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Jolteon used Double Kick!
Hit!
Hit!
It's super effective!
Hit 2 times!
(17% damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #20
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 46% HP

Begin Turn #21
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Jolteon!
Jzap sent out Zapdos (Lv.100 Zapdos)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Rhydon used Earthquake!
It doesn't affect Jzap's Zapdos...
---------------------------------
End of turn #21
Jzap's Zapdos: 383 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 46% HP

Begin Turn #22
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Zapdos!
Jzap sent out Slowbro (Lv.100 Slowbro)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Rhydon used Substitute!
jynx's Rhydon made a Substitute!
---------------------------------
End of turn #22
Jzap's Slowbro: 393 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 21% HP

Begin Turn #23
jynx's Rhydon used Earthquake!
(132 damage)
---------------------------------
Jzap's Slowbro used Amnesia!
Jzap's Slowbro's Special sharply rose!
---------------------------------
End of turn #23
Jzap's Slowbro: 261 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 21% HP

Begin Turn #24
jynx's Rhydon used Earthquake!
(142 damage)
---------------------------------
Jzap's Slowbro used Surf!
The Substitute took damage for jynx's Rhydon!
jynx's Rhydon's Substitute faded!
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
End of turn #24
Jzap's Slowbro: 119 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 21% HP

Begin Turn #25
jynx's Rhydon used Earthquake!
(119 damage)
Jzap's Slowbro fainted!
Jzap sent out Tauros (Lv.100 Tauros)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #25
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Rhydon: 21% HP

Begin Turn #26
Jzap's Tauros used Earthquake!
(21% damage)
It's super effective!
jynx's Rhydon fainted!
jynx sent out Starmie (Lv.100 Starmie)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #26
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #27
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Tauros!
Jzap sent out Alakazam (Lv.100 Alakazam)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Starmie used Thunder Wave!
But it failed!
---------------------------------
End of turn #27
Jzap's Alakazam: 313 HP (Slp)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #28
Jzap's Alakazam is fast asleep.
---------------------------------
jynx's Starmie used Thunderbolt!
(66 damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #28
Jzap's Alakazam: 247 HP (Slp)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #29
jynx withdrew jynx's Starmie!
jynx sent out Tauros (Lv.100 Tauros)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Alakazam woke up!
---------------------------------
End of turn #29
Jzap's Alakazam: 247 HP
jynx's Tauros: 100% HP

Begin Turn #30
Jzap's Alakazam used Psychic!
(49% damage)
---------------------------------
jynx's Tauros used Body Slam!
(170 damage)
Jzap's Alakazam is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #30
Jzap's Alakazam: 77 HP (Par)
jynx's Tauros: 51% HP

Begin Turn #31
jynx's Tauros used Body Slam!
(77 damage)
Jzap's Alakazam fainted!
Jzap sent out Jolteon (Lv.100 Jolteon)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #31
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Tauros: 51% HP

Begin Turn #32
Jzap's Jolteon used Thunderbolt!
(51% damage)
A critical hit!
jynx's Tauros fainted!
jynx sent out Gengar (Lv.100 Gengar)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #32
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Gengar: 39% HP

Begin Turn #33
Jzap's Jolteon used Thunderbolt!
(34% damage)
---------------------------------
jynx's Gengar used Hypnosis!
jynx's Gengar's attack missed!
---------------------------------
End of turn #33
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Gengar: 5% HP

Begin Turn #34
Jzap's Jolteon used Thunderbolt!
(6% damage)
jynx's Gengar fainted!
jynx sent out Chansey (Lv.100 Chansey)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #34
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP

Begin Turn #35
Jzap's Jolteon used Thunder Wave!
jynx's Chansey is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Thunder Wave!
Jzap's Jolteon is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #35
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #36
Jzap's Jolteon is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Softboiled!
jynx's Chansey regained health!
---------------------------------
End of turn #36
Jzap's Jolteon: 333 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 100% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #37
Jzap's Jolteon used Double Kick!
A critical hit!
A critical hit!
It's super effective!
Hit 2 times!
(53% damage)
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(72 damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #37
Jzap's Jolteon: 261 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 47% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #38
Jzap's Jolteon is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Softboiled!
jynx's Chansey regained health!
---------------------------------
End of turn #38
Jzap's Jolteon: 261 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 96% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #39
Jzap's Jolteon used Mimic!
Jzap's Jolteon learned Softboiled!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(71 damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #39
Jzap's Jolteon: 190 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 96% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #40
Jzap's Jolteon used Softboiled!
Jzap's Jolteon regained health!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(70 damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #40
Jzap's Jolteon: 263 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 96% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #41
Jzap's Jolteon used Double Kick!
Hit!
Hit!
It's super effective!
Hit 2 times!
(27% damage)
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(142 damage)
A critical hit!
---------------------------------
End of turn #41
Jzap's Jolteon: 121 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #42
Jzap's Jolteon is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(72 damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #42
Jzap's Jolteon: 49 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #43
Jzap's Jolteon is paralyzed! It can't move!
---------------------------------
jynx's Chansey used Ice Beam!
(49 damage)
Jzap's Jolteon fainted!
Jzap: woah my fking gawd
Jzap sent out Tauros (Lv.100 Tauros)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #43
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Chansey: 69% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #44
jynx withdrew jynx's Chansey!
jynx sent out chanchan (Lv.100 Jynx)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Tauros used Hyper Beam!
(29% damage)
jynx's chanchan fainted!
jynx sent out Starmie (Lv.100 Starmie)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #44
Jzap's Tauros: 353 HP
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #45
Jzap withdrew Jzap's Tauros!
Jzap sent out Zapdos (Lv.100 Zapdos)!
---------------------------------
jynx's Starmie used Thunder Wave!
Jzap's Zapdos is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #45
Jzap's Zapdos: 383 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #46
jynx withdrew jynx's Starmie!
jynx sent out Chansey (Lv.100 Chansey)!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Zapdos used Thunder!
(22% damage)
---------------------------------
End of turn #46
Jzap's Zapdos: 383 HP (Par)
jynx's Chansey: 47% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #47
Jzap's Zapdos used Drill Peck!
(47% damage)
A critical hit!
jynx's Chansey fainted!
jynx sent out Starmie (Lv.100 Starmie)!
---------------------------------
End of turn #47
Jzap's Zapdos: 383 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP

Begin Turn #48
jynx's Starmie used Ice Beam!
(127 damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Zapdos used Thunder Wave!
jynx's Starmie is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
End of turn #48
Jzap's Zapdos: 256 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 89% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #49
jynx's Starmie used Ice Beam!
(247 damage)
A critical hit!
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
(77% damage)
It's super effective!
---------------------------------
End of turn #49
Jzap's Zapdos: 9 HP (Par)
jynx's Starmie: 12% HP (Par)

Begin Turn #50
jynx's Starmie used Recover!
jynx's Starmie regained health!
---------------------------------
Jzap's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
(62% damage)
It's super effective!
jynx's Starmie fainted!

End Battle! Jzap wins!
Score: 2 to 0

NetBattle v1.1.1
Log saved 7/3/2011 at 8:19:25 PM

Not that this is definitive in any way, I am simply posting for the sake of posting matches. I do really enjoy the concept of double electric.

[pocket]

Hmm that went pretty well

I thought a team like yours would be pretty annoyed by Chansey's boltbeam after Zam gets frozen / put to sleep. Somehow you managed to dispatch Chansey without much of a problem, which was cool! Mimicking Softboiled helped I think, putting pressure on Chansey to dispatch Jolteon rather than stalling it to death.

[brookman]

The series of FP's didn't help much tho.

[Nitro]

The major problem with electrics is that they are just inferior in general to snorlax and tauros so its just really not worth all the trouble to set them up for the sake of using them. Even in good matchups they are still not better than snorlax imo, just on par.

Even if you disagree with that, which you shouldn't, electrics basically box you in because you are going to need serious anti ground support in order to use them (just Egg is not enough, cause now you REALLY can't afford to explode Egg or let him take too much damage sleeping something). So basically electrics only really work with one type of team, at least consistently, you can always surprise randomly 1 round holding out a zapdos til the end and get away with it, but you will be boned hard if they sense an electric at all and just save golem/rhydon.

[Consumptus]

I think what Nitro is getting at is that there are pokes that are not so easily walled in OU. And I totally agree with him. It's very hard to use a poke that is shut down by one pokemon. And then you have to eat the chip damage of 318 attack and 150 pow EQ.

[WaterWizard]

With double electric, you usually lure out the foe's Rock/Ground poke early on (preferably with Jolteon), and then your other electric gets to sweep at the end.

Zapdos may be totally walled by one poke, but that's about it. Remove that obstacle, and you can do some major damage.

Also, Golem isn't that big of a deal to switch in on... Eggy, Chansey, Starmie, Slowbro, Lapras...

Rhydon does present somewhat of a problem for double electric teams, no doubt. But I think I made that clear in my first comment on this thread.

[Nitro]

It's not really "about it" for Zapdos, though.

Besides being totally walled by the rock/grounds it can still lose/be completely crippled by zam/chansey/snorlax/tauros, exploded on by Egg or Gengar, even Jynx can beat it.

It's a good sweeper with the table set properly but its not a godly sweeper and it just doesn't end up being worth all the trouble to get it free, since it's a big liability to be totally walled.

You can say Golem is easy to switch in on, but there's a (pretty small) limit to how many free switch ins to golem teams tend to have, especially once things get par'd. As long as Golem is generally not getting in too easily, he won't be a problem, but electrics, particularly zapdos, let him in much too easily.

Basically, for the original post: Grounds must have been unpopular, he must have been really lucky, or the competition was very poor if he really got away with winning an entire tournament with a 2 electric team.

[sm0kr]

I must disagree with Nitro on Zapdos ; he's one of the few mixed sweeper viable, and can do major damage before fainting.
The tough thing is to keep it hidden for the end of the battle, and Tauros is much more appropriate for late-game.
And he gets destroyed mid-game.
He's really good on paper, but doesn't fit the actual metagame. I still like it and use it sometimes.
I don't like Jolt at all, as he can't do shit once paralyzed. Point of view of an old-style player though, maybe i'm mistaken.

[borat]

I think the idea is that a Zapdos played right is still an inferior Tauros.

[WaterWizard]

Inferior is a nonapplicable word since you're comparing apples and oranges. Tauros doesn't 2HKO Eggy, Slowbro, Lapras, Articuno or Starmie. Zapdos does, and Zapdos also 2HKOs Persian/Starmie without having to resort to Hyper Beam.

Also, Nitro, Tauros doesn't do better than Zapdos vs Snorlax, and Jynx 2HKOs and is 2HKO'd by both, so she doesn't count, either.

Yes, Zapdos has more trouble vs Zam/Chansey, but less against the above-mentioned pokes.

Zapdos is a singularity in OU, being the only true mixed sweeper... (Kingler is comparable)

[jorgen]

Zapdos v. Tauros isn't exactly apples to oranges. They're both meant to be late-game cleaners that outspeed everything and hit everything hard, too. Sure, there's differences in what gives the two trouble. Discounting Golem/Rhydon, Zapdos has more trouble breaking Zam/Chansey, stuff that's likely to be hanging around in the endgame, whereas Tauros's speed bumps are things that are either 1) less common, or 2) prone to taking a beating or being flatout killed in the early and middle games. Thus, the concept of Zapdos being an inferior Tauros.