GSC LC

[Destiny Warrior]

I noticed Crystal's thread earlier, and thought it was worth recreating after it got archived.

I've tried out this metagame with some other people on Smogon, and found its really a nice break from OU. THoughts on the metagame:-

1.Scyther is BROKEN. In the matches we had, we found it eventually dissolved to a competition of "Who can predict the oppoent's Scythe better, which I think is kind of unhealthy. While Scther doesn't pose too great of a threat on its own(though the Swords Dance set holding the berry that cures status(implemented as Lum in Pokemon Online) can be very threatening if your Hypnosis/Sleep Powder misses and it gets a second Swords Dance in), I feel its biggest strength is the ability to Baton Pass, which means a LOT in this metagame. Firstly, if it is passing Attack(its inferior pass in my opinion), then it can convert what is a standard 2HKOing sweeper into a beast that will start to rip the tier apart in its bare hands.

The real deal however, is Agilipass. If you aren't careful enough, by using its Gold Berry(Sitrus on PO), it can successfully get in a Cubone on an electric attack, and trust me, Cubone at +2 Speed holding Thick Club is HORRIBLE to face. It has 24 HP and 19 Def, so a mere Quick ATtack won't cut it. THis will just run its way through the tier. You need to Quick Attack like 3-4 times to even hope to kill it. AS far as I know, the only think that doesn't get instantly killed by it is Chansey, but the encounter will leave Chansey really crippled on health(with just 13 speed), meaning it becomes easy fodder to be picked off, opening the route for a Gastly/Houndour/Elekid cleanup.

2.Gastly. The only ghost in the whole tier, it obviously has a pretty role to play. It is solely responsible for sucking up Explosions and Selfdestructs, and to boot it boasts an immunity to ALL priority. This means a) You're not revenge killing without 19 speeders/SD Scyther and b)It is a great user of Explosion itself c)It is not safe to switch in to with something slower, due to the threat of Hypnosis.

3.Houndour. Only Dark type in the tier. This is pretty mean, with Fire Blast/Crunch/HP Water/Pursuit, this will probably make Abra and Gastly rest a lot less easy(though Gastly does boast a Thunderbolt that will eat up yoru Gold/Sitrus Berry). This is compounded by the fact that HP Fighting is horrible on these too, so Abra can't hit this super-effectively outside of HP Water, which as far as I know does not even KO, so Dour can punish it with Crunch/Pursuit mindgames.

4.Chansey. The single reason special attackers are confined to lategame cleaners(outside of Gastly which is a lead, but that's because of Explosion and Hypnosis). Chansey can spread around Toxic or Thunder Wave and can Heal Bell for your team, reducing the need for a "Lum" Berry and setting up the stage for the cleaners.

5.Agility. The. Best. Move. In. The. Game. This probably ties for teh award with Quick Attack, Seriously, Agility has saved me so many times. Random free turns occur now and then, and tehre's no better way to use them than to set up an Agility. The best user of Agility(outside of Baton Pass Scyther obviously) is Doduo, with a set of Agility/Drill Peck/Return or Double-Edge/Quick Attack or Hidden Power Grass/Water(I prefer Quick Attack). If you use Spikes Pineco lead for some reason, after Chansey is eliminated, you can Agility up and proceed to clean(you *can* get past Chansey, but the recoil from Double-Edge is a bit too high for my taste).

I've taken the liberty to arrange the Little Cup Legal Pokemon into rough "tiers", but my experience range isn't as broad as you guys, so this could use discussion.

(Pichu in OU not Ubers because Chansey could give it major issues, and Chansey is on every team)

OU
Abra
Chansey
Cubone
Diglett
Doduo
Elekid
Gastly
Houndour
Pineco
Ponyta
Porygon
Rhyhorn
Scyther
Staryu
Voltorb

BL
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur
Chinchou
Dratini
Eevee
Exeggcute
Grimer
Growlithe
Horsea
Koffing
Krabby
Larvitar
Machop
Magby
Magnemite
Mankey
Mareep
Meowth
Oddish
Paras
Pidgey
Poliwag
Remoraid
Sandshrew
Shellder
Snubbull
Spearow
Tentacool

UU
Caterpie
Charmander
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Drowzee
Ekans
Geodude
Goldeen
Hoothoot
Hoppip
Kabuto
Ledyba
Magikarp
Marill
Natu
Nidoran-F
Nidoran-M
Omanyte
Onix
Pichu
Psyduck
Rattata
Seel
Sentret
Slowpoke
Slugma
Spinarak
Squirtle
Sunkern
Swinub
Teddiursa
Togepi
Totodile
Tyrogue
Venonat
Weedle
Wooper
Zubat

[Crystal_]

I did my last LC speculations last summer, but I may finally make a team then. Is Scyther allowed then?

[Destiny Warrior]

Yeah, we just banned Scyther between ourselves because we were really really sick of it, but Rhyhorn does threaten Scyther with Rock Slide, and it otherwise synergizes decently with Chansey(the fighting type weakness is negated by the fact that a)Fighting type mons are nonexistent with a 4x resist just waiting to come in and b)Gastly leads.

So yes, Scyther isn't banned.

List of Scyther sets probably worth using:-
SD "Lum" lead
SDPass
AgiliPass
Swords Dance cleaner

An Agility sweeper isn't that good in my opinion because in this metagame, you want to maximise your chances of OHKOing with Scyther(nasty weaknesses!) rather than attempting to clean up and falling agonizingly short. Besides, outside of AGiliDoduo, SCytehr doesn't need Agility for anything else.

[WaterWizard]

Scyther and Onix evolutions seem kind of lateral.

[t3h Icy]

Cool stuff. It seems to work like RBY LC; very offensive and aggressive. What is it that makes Pichu OU though (not arguing, just don't know)?

[jorgen]

I'm confused about Pichu being OU, too. Why not use Voltorb/Elekid? Pichu doesn't get agility or light ball.

[Destiny Warrior]

Pichu does get Light Ball(Voltorb actually has no real use, with no abiltiies, no setting up) afaik in gsc.

I suppose its more of BL material, but we never used pichu at all, and it looks like it could be a special variant of cubone(aka, besides Syhther, Agilipass is enough to shoot it), but if Light Ball doesn't work on it, UU is where it goes.

[t3h Icy]

Light Ball is Pikachu only I believe.

[Zilch]

Voltorb could still make some noise with Explosion, TBolt and Hidden Power, no?

[Destiny Warrior]

Yup, confirming from Bulbapedia.

Down to UU that thing goes then.

[Zilch]

Any chance you could alphabetize the tiers? They're a bit tough to read. Also, you have Houndour in OU and UU.

[Destiny Warrior]

Currently they're sorted in pokedex order, but I'll alphabetize them right now.

EDIT: Alphabetized list and fixed Houndour error.

@voltorb: I'm pushing it to OU, but not because of that set. I just realised this is one of the best paralysis leads around.

[Crystal_]

Why tiers?
Tier = usage, I don't think there is enough metagame for doing that. Plus, what's the purpose of the tiers?: lower tier metas. Will GSC LC UU ever exist...?

[Isa]

"Will GSC LC UU ever exist...?"

You forgot to include DOUBLES! Aw yeah, Zubat+Hoppip leads!

[t3h Icy]

GSC does have doubles though. =P

Tiers for things like LC are more for a reference to what's good and not, like RBY LC. Though I'd have to see how deep you can go with the GSC LC metagame, because I'd argue that these tiers aren't fully tested and more theory-crafted. But I also don't play GSC, so I wouldn't know.