GSC Stall team

[Consumptus]

So yeah, I was wondering if all of you could give me your thoughts on this team. Thanks!

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
- Curse
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Spikes

Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
- Baton Pass
- Growl => Charm
- Mean Look
- Rest

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Sludge Bomb => Toxic
- Surf

Raikou @ Leftovers
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rest
- Roar
- Thunder

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
- Curse
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Whirlwind

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Selfdestruct

[jorgen]

why no charm on umbreon?

[Consumptus]

ML and Charm are illegal... or Charm and BP ... I forget.

[jorgen]

You can breed Charm onto an Eevee.
Eevee gets BP at level 36 in Crystal.
Umbreon gets ML at level 42.

PO I think was bugged for a little bit and didn't allow it for some reason, but charm + ml + bp is perfectly legal.

[Consumptus]

Huh, thanks.

[WaterWizard]

Growth and Substitute are the moves you can't combine with Charm.

Also, it seems like Jolt+Wak would dominate your team pretty easily.

[jorgen]

Nah. Joltwak's covered pretty well.

[Earthworm]

I think that while you do have counters to most threats on paper, in reality you can easily lose by being worn down. Why are you using Tentacruel?

[jorgen]

Tenta's not that bad. I, personally, would never use it as a spinner, but it handles all the spikers very well and is immune to poison, so it's not getting worn down as easily as other spinners. However, its defensive utility is pretty narrow and it gets ruined by spinblock, which this team can't really stop.

This team has spikes + spin, but doesn't really play the spikes game too well. It needs poison spread, a way to beat spinblock, and a way to keep spikes against non-Starmie spin if it's going to be consistent. Otherwise, I see it relying on those ultra-limited Explosions far too often.

Defensively, this team looks like it has a couple of holes. Most notable are EQ Machamp and Charizard. Others are things like Mixed offense, sleepers, etc., that give most stalls a little trouble. You know what'd plug most of those holes right up, though? Suicune. Just a thought.

[Consumptus]

i feel that Umbreon can handle almost all mixed sweepers. EQ Machamp does seem to be a big problem. I'd have to rely on Skarmory or Forrettress Explosion.

Spinblock is something I didn't think of. As for Tentacruel, resists fighting (Machamp) and does decently spinning. Also outspeeds basically everything to Haze if needed.

As you can tell, I haven't actually played GSC games with this team. Mostly just theorycrafting. Thanks for all the thoughts.

[WaterWizard]

well let's test it out!

[Consumptus]

I think I'm going to change Sludge Bomb to Toxic. It seems to be much better overall especially when I'm not running SD.

The Pokemon that I'd hit with Sludge Bomb seem to be much better off Toxic'd. Vaporeon for example will have to Rest and I can go to a phazer. Exeggutor will still be annoying, but it'll be a little easier to predict the Explosion if it's on a timer. Meganium will lose to Toxic whereas it would just stall Sludge Bomb. The steels (Steelix, Skarmory, Forretress) lose to Surf anyways.

To be honest, I think the biggest problem with the team is it has nothing to threaten Raikou/Zapdos. Any ideas?

[borat]

The hell? What are you hazing? Vaporeon? Just kill it. SD over haze.

If you want to spin on it, that's fine, it's not like the alternative Rest/Sub was a game breaker anyway.

As aforementioned, you lose in spikes war, get worn down, etc.

[jorgen]

Spin + SD = illegal.

Then again, so is Spin + Haze. Hrm.

[Skuller]

you're wasting a slot using both Tentacruel and Forretress. I would replace Tentacruel with cloyster (spikes, rapid spin, ice beam, surf) and I would use it as a lead. then replace Forretress, useless, with Steelix, that works both baitkiller of any bulky water, or blissey, and shuffler.

Joltwak is horrible for a stall team :x