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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 8:25:20 GMT -8
I'm sure we've all wondered what the most powerful attack possible is. By this I mean the theoretical most possible damage that can be dealt in one turn. You get different answers depending on what restrictions you make.
Firstly, I'm talking about a situation that is possible in game (without glitches), and I'm assuming that the target has infinite HP. If they have finite HP, then the answer would simply just be 703, achievable from one of many of the attacks that can OHKO Chansey. The situation that I claim does the the most damage in one turn is this:
A level 100 Dodrio with max Iv's and Ev's in attack, mimicking Swords Dance, boosting to +6 to give 999 attack, using Sky Attack against a level 1 Paras with 0 Iv's and Ev's in defense, who has had their defense lowered to at least -5 to give a defense of 1. I claim this deals a theoretical damage of 704904.
It would've been just the same using any Flying pokemon who can achieve 999 attack, and they could mimic Meditate or Sharpen too. Only +5 attack is necessary in this particular case.
Can anyone find an attack more powerful? And is there a more powerful attack through glitches?
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Post by jorgen on May 19, 2012 10:12:15 GMT -8
Level 1 paras is impossible without glitching. Level 5 is as low as it gets.
With that in mind, a Sky Attack off 999 Attack against this min Defense -6 Lvl 5 Paras (2 Defense) would come out to a maximum of 352,459 damage.
You get stronger damage with a 999 Special STAB Hydro Pump against a min Special -5 or lower Level 2 Geodude (1 Special). 604,207 damage max.
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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 12:31:44 GMT -8
Where can you get level 2 geodude? Also, how would you lower its special?
And true, I did forget about levels. Damnnnnnnnnnnn
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Post by GGFan on May 19, 2012 12:47:52 GMT -8
Where can you get level 2 geodude? Also, how would you lower its special? And true, I did forget about levels. Damnnnnnnnnnnn You can catch them in GSC. |
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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 12:57:54 GMT -8
Ah ok.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on May 19, 2012 12:58:15 GMT -8
I suppose you could get a super weak Psychic user to hit it five times? Doubtful Geodude would survive that, unless it also had Mimic (lol) and Mimic'ed Recover or Rest (more lol).
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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 13:16:23 GMT -8
Hahahaha if that really can happen, then impressive!
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Post by cheese on May 19, 2012 13:22:45 GMT -8
Can't you just teach the Geodude the Rest TM?
And if he can survive a CH Psychic then the special drops obviously won't matter (assuming you CH every time).
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Post by jorgen on May 19, 2012 13:25:49 GMT -8
I was thinking you get a couple of low-level Jigglypuffs to Psychic each other's Special stats down, then bring in the Geodude to take the -6 Psychics until it drops to 1 Special, using Rest to keep its health up.
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on May 19, 2012 13:30:10 GMT -8
Get a level 2 Rattata (7 Special, regardless of DVs), teach it Mimic, learn Psychic, have opposite level 2 Geodude Mimic Recover/Rest from something else, use Psychic and lower Geodude's Special until it's -6 while Geodude constantly restores HP. Even at -6 Special, Rattata wouldn't be able to OHKO Geodude, though Tail Whip can be useful for wasting turns if Geodude is weak and needs to recover HP. Then, simply have something with Hydro Pump or Solarbeam obtain +6 Special and watch the fireworks.
That wasn't so hard now, was it?
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Isa
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Post by Isa on May 19, 2012 13:39:39 GMT -8
So to get the most powerful move in the game, four Pokémon and GSC is required, plus Mimic luck. =p
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Post by cheese on May 19, 2012 13:42:38 GMT -8
Too bad there's nothing weak to normal. An Exploding Swords Dance Lickitung would be pretty sweet.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on May 19, 2012 13:47:44 GMT -8
He wouldn't get to 999 though. Farfetch'D has higher base attack and learns Swords Dance as well, so his Explosion is potentially more powerful (though he's not getting to 999 either).
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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 14:05:48 GMT -8
How about an exploding swords dancing snorlax via mimic and metronome?  |
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Post by David the Chansey on May 19, 2012 14:06:12 GMT -8
Or even just metronome, at that point.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on May 19, 2012 14:19:01 GMT -8
Oh yeah, Metronome! That's a way to get Explosion, of course. Yeah, that'd make him beastly. All Normals with an attack of 250 or higher and access to Metronome can get the same stat, but I wonder how many that would be. I actually think that's only Snorlax, actually.
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on May 19, 2012 16:57:56 GMT -8
Machamp's Explosion would leave quite a dent, too. Not quite Snorlax's level, though.
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Post by longfellow on May 20, 2012 4:59:19 GMT -8
What would be the strongest attack achievable without either GSC or glitches?
In terms of what the target could be: no Pokémon with a 4x weakness can gets its relevant defense lowered to 1--the minimum is 2, which Geodude and Bulbasaur reach. The following Pokémon can reach 1 defense or special on a 2x weakness: Pidgey/Spearow, Rattata/Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Weedle, Caterpie, Nidoran, and Magikarp. I don't think I missed any...
I also don't think Explosion and Selfdestruct would do the damage we'd expect, since you can't halve a defense of 1.
My calculator gives me:
- 352,452 for STAB Sky Attack on Weedle/etc.
- 302,104 for STAB Blizzard/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump/Solarbeam/Thunder on Pidgey/Weedle/Geodude/etc.
The strongest attacks obtanable without Mimic or Metronome (I'm only listing the strongest attack a given Pokémon can use):
- 302,104 for a Growth Parasect/Tangela/Venusaur/Victreebel using Solarbeam on Geodude
- 287,896 for an Amnesia Poliwrath using Hydro Pump on Geodude
- 251,754 for a Swords Dance Sandslash using Dig/Earthquake on Nidoran/Pikachu
- 239,172 for an Amnesia Slowbro using Surf on Geodude
- 226,579 for an Amnesia Mewtwo using Psychic on Weedle/Nidoran
- 213,991 for a Meditate Hitmonlee using Hi Jump Kick on Rattata/Jigglypuff
Strongest attacks without boosting, Mimic, or Metronome (again, only listing the strongest possibility per Pokémon):
- 45,669 for a CH Exeggutor Solarbeam on 9 spc. Geodude
- 44,357 for a CH Tentacruel Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 43,045 for a CH Omastar Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 41,733 for a CH Vaporeon Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 39,109 for a CH Tangela/Venusaur/Victreebel/Vileplume Solarbeam or Gyarados/Starmie/Tentacool Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 37,797 for a CH Lapras/Seadra Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 36,512 for a CH Dodrio Sky Attack on 6 def. Weedle
- 35,519 for a CH Mewtwo Solarbeam on 9 spc. Geodude
- 35,364 for a CH Aerodactyl Sky Attack on 6 def. Weedle
- 35,173 for a CH Blastoise Hydro Pump or Gloom/Weepinbell Solarbeam on 9 spc. Geodude
- 34,249 for a CH Articuno Blizzard or Moltres Fire Blast or Zapdos Thunder on 6 spc. Spearow or Weedle
- 33,901 for a CH Snorlax Selfdestruct on a 6 def. anything
- 33,861 for a CH Parasect/Ivysaur Solarbeam or Golduck Hydro Pump on 9 spc. Geodude
- 33,265 for a CH Magneton Thunder on 6 spc. Spearow
- 32,549 for a CH Oddish Solarbeam on 9 spc. Geodude
- 31,920 for a CH Fearow or Zapdos Sky Attack on 6 def. Weedle
- 31,297 for a CH Flareon Fire Blast or Jolteon Thunder on 6 spc. Weedle or Spearow
- 31,237 for a CH Horsea/Kabutops/Polywrath/Staryu Hydro Pump or Bellsprout Solarbeam on 9 spc. Geodude
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Post by WaterWizard on May 20, 2012 12:17:02 GMT -8
Very nice! - 34,249 for a CH Articuno Blizzard or Moltres Fire Blast or Zapdos Thunder on 6 spc. Spearow well, not FB. |
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Post by David the Chansey on May 20, 2012 14:28:43 GMT -8
That is one incredible list!
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Post by longfellow on May 20, 2012 19:00:43 GMT -8
Oops, that should work on the 6 def. Weedle though. Fixing..
Once you're boosted to 999 it makes no difference (as long as your original attack is 250+). But Machamp learns Metronome and therefore can access Conversion to give himself Normal STAB.
Machamp's unboosted CH STAB Explosion (on a not debuffed 6 def. enemy) does 49,908. Mewtwo is the king of Conversion abuse though--its STAB Solarbeam does 53,279 to a 9 spc. Geodude.
Also of interest--this damage is not dealt in one turn, but Cloyster's unboosted CH Clamp can do 51,335 to a 9 spc. Geodude. With Conversion magic Mewtwo can bring that number up to 77,740. Finally, with boosts and special falls and everything it can do up to 440,615.
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Post by gunbladelad on May 23, 2012 19:30:34 GMT -8
Wouldn't - in theory, the strongest possible move to use on a pokemon with hypothetical infinite HP, be Super Fang. with 50% of infinite HP's worth of damage certain, then the damage would never actually end...
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Post by WaterWizard on May 23, 2012 21:10:38 GMT -8
there is no such thing as % of infinity, for it cannot be quantified in such a way, although simplistically one might say 50% of infinity is still infinity. therefore, if we allow that, you could say that Super Fang would theoretically be the second strongest move. The strongest move(s) would be 1HKO moves (and perhaps even Bide), which could do "twice" as much.
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Post by David the Chansey on May 24, 2012 6:13:47 GMT -8
The assumption would be better phrased as "there is no limit to how much damage a pokemon can take" rather than "it has infinite HP". Also I completely forgot about Bide and Counter...
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on May 24, 2012 16:58:49 GMT -8
The assumption would be better phrased as "there is no limit to how much damage a pokemon can take" rather than "it has infinite HP". That may be true for NBS and other simulators, but I have some doubts as far as the cart goes. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe damage in Red is a 16-bit value, meaning that if your damage output would exceed 0xFFFF (65535 decimal), it might overflow to 0 and keep counting upwards after that, meaning that a hit causing 65537 damage would only take off 1 HP. It's either that or the game is hard-coded to cap damage at 65535. I can't imagine they'd use more than 16 bits for the damage counter anyway. |
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Post by David the Chansey on May 24, 2012 17:06:33 GMT -8
So many things to think about lol
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on May 24, 2012 17:28:32 GMT -8
That's what happens when you think like a programmer.
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Post by Dexter on Jun 2, 2012 18:43:36 GMT -8
In terms of what the target could be: no Pokémon with a 4x weakness can gets its relevant defense lowered to 1--the minimum is 2, which Geodude and Bulbasaur reach. The following Pokémon can reach 1 defense or special on a 2x weakness: Pidgey/Spearow, Rattata/Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Weedle, Caterpie, Nidoran, and Magikarp. I don't think I missed any... Pidgey/Nidoran/Rattata/Jigglypuff/Pikachu can all learn mimic, and therefore mimic Conversion. IIRC in RBY Conversion copies both types so they can use conversion to become paras' type. So a 999 sky attack vs. 1 defense jigglypuff converted into bug/grass would be the most damage, pretty sure, unless I'm understanding the mechanics of conversion wrong. EDIT: Bulbapedia says one thing, smogon and netbattle says another. Bulbapedia says conversion changes both types into the types of the target, so using conversion vs. paras would change you into a bug/grass type. If conversion only copies ONE type then Spearow could change it's flying type into ice and therefore take 4x damage from Hi Jump Kick. 4x HJK with 1 defense takes more damage than 4x Sky attack with 2 defense I think. Also geodude DOES reach 1 special if you catch a level 2 in GSC and trade it, so a 999 stab hydro pump/solarbeam would definitely be the most damaging special attack. |
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Post by David the Chansey on Jun 2, 2012 19:07:20 GMT -8
nice! mimic is the way to go...
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Post by WaterWizard on Jun 2, 2012 19:12:43 GMT -8
that is an elaborate and impressive MPA.
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