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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 20, 2011 10:57:49 GMT -8
Eric the Espeon has just created and released PO Wiki, which is Pokemon Online's encyclopedia of all things pokemon. I imagine it'll be similar to Bulbapedia, but sleeker, better, and more focused on competitive Pokemon. As it's open source, you're all welcome to register and add your own input to the site to help expand and improve it. Right now, it's very limited, so you can really help shape things if you get involved quickly. I'm sure there will be many things you can think of to add, from articles on specific pokemon, teams, and movesets, to thoughts on Wrap or the Freeze Clause. Personally, I'm going to add in all our tiers for RBY, so that it's not just a two metagame gen (OU/UU), and I'm going to write an article on the Self-KO clause and how it fits into the metagame. I'd like to get some historical views on that topic, too, as I know it wasn't always a standard clause. Anyway, go check it out and carve a place in the competitive pokemon community's next great endeavor. WW |
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 20, 2011 11:18:55 GMT -8
I already added the tiers yesterday  I wrote a small section on Blizzard as well, so check that out. Be sure to add strategy guides where you want them. Who wants to write Zam...?  |
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 20, 2011 11:28:14 GMT -8
Don't forget to make sure everything is specific to Generation 1, as it's being made for all competitive generations of Pokemon.
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 20, 2011 12:31:38 GMT -8
I meant I'm doing the pages like this one. Just wrote that one, and about to do the BL, UU, and NU metagames. |
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Post by jorgen on Sept 20, 2011 12:45:17 GMT -8
Oh man, I almost forgot about this. I'm looking through the pokemon-specific analyses for GSC that I wrote forever ago. Still marginally better than what Smogon has up now, but they still need to be updated because I added and omitted some pretty cringe-worthy details.
Also, WW, was Wrap even an issue early on? From what I know of the olden days, it wasn't a contentious issue because it just didn't work on the simulators, making its use impossible. I'm not going to make the edit because I wasn't around then, so I'm hardly qualified, but the wrap controversy part of the page looked a bit iffy.
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Post by hipmonlee on Sept 20, 2011 13:34:35 GMT -8
Wrap never worked on a sim until after netbattle was around. I have a feeling it was first implemented on RBYBot and that may have been made before NB RBY, but certainly after NB GSC. Anyway, the point is it wasnt until like 2004 or something. And when it first came out it was seen as a bit of a joke strategy given the quality of the pokemon that learn it.
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ete
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Post by ete on Sept 20, 2011 13:41:26 GMT -8
Great to have you all on board. Come on the #PO Wiki channel sometime  . It'd be cool to be able to talk things over in real time. |
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 20, 2011 13:43:03 GMT -8
yeah I edited it some more.
did official Nintendo tournaments allow wrapping moves? I can't even remember how those moves function in link battles.
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ete
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Post by ete on Sept 20, 2011 22:19:58 GMT -8
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 21, 2011 7:15:18 GMT -8
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Post by garrinred on Sept 21, 2011 7:58:04 GMT -8
Dibs on the RBY Zam analysis.
Also I'd like to try my hand at the Gengar analysis.
But mostly Zam.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 21, 2011 8:53:46 GMT -8
Looks good Isa!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 21, 2011 10:20:30 GMT -8
Thanks It wasn't that hard once I got the initial stats page up. |
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Post by posthuman on Sept 21, 2011 11:34:36 GMT -8
nice isa.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 21, 2011 13:09:53 GMT -8
Isa, I am totally going to use your page as a template. :-P
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 21, 2011 13:24:26 GMT -8
That's completely fine, haha. I used the Gen 2 Zapdos as my template, but it's more handy for us to have one for Gen 1.
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Post by Crystal_ on Sept 22, 2011 7:10:10 GMT -8
Isa. I would like to comment your Persian article, ok? The article itself it's pretty fine and everything is correct of course. Persian afterall is just Persian, he slahes, then slashes again, goes through reflects, is fragile, beam has 10 more bp and can CH, bubblebeams rocks etc. But I would like to emphasize three aspects. Firstly, I would probably expand the explanation of the fourth move imo, especially taking into account Starmie. Without the last move, a Starmie at around +95% is a safe switchin inot Persian, as Slash + Beam will not KO, and Starmie can therefore para you and then spam recover until you fp. Tbolt allows Persian to beat Rest Cloyster by himself, and a CH (or para) in the switch almost guarantees that Persian will beat Starmie as it will do around 70%, thus, allowing Persian to KO then with Slash (Starmie will need to outspeed you at least around 4 consecutive times to survive). Body Slam has a 30% chance of para which is nice vs Starmie switches (though 30% may easily not be enough as Persian doesnt survive long enough to see Starmie switching into it million times), and gives Persian a good chance 1 vs 1 vs non-paralyzed Chasney (otherwise, if it's para its easy to beat it). Screech is probably the inferior option imo, as it's difficult to imagine a situation where screeching would allow another pokemon to do more than what Persian's slash would have done. Screech could help in something like Snorlax to fight Reflect-tanking stuff, but Persian already has Slash for that! Then I'll probably enphasize how useful Slash CH can be. Not only for Alakazam, but also for Reflect Snorlax and Reflect Slowbro, who could otherwise hax you to death. Also, although this probably belongs to synegies, Persian is a obligatory addition in teams that doesnt have recoverers, to cover offensively Reflect Zams (and reflect chanseys to some extent), instead of deffensively with Zam/chansey/starm, which is what most teams do. As for the counters: Gengar, Cloyster, but only if no tbolt obv, and then a full health Starmie to some extent. Otherwise there isn't anything that is really a "counter". In fact, his next beast counter is to take advantage of his fragility. This means that it doesn't matter if you have Lapras, Snorlax, Eggy, Tauros, etc in; you should always try to stay in and attack with whatever you have in, if possible, rather that switch out, taking extra hits. And yeah, para rapes Persian and you mentioned, and everything is a semi-counter of a para Persian. I'll mention these things imo.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 22, 2011 10:05:57 GMT -8
Screech is nice for when you need Hyper Beam to OHKO.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 22, 2011 10:18:03 GMT -8
Screech can be used against Starmie. Screech+HB does 89% minimum.
I also approve of Screech overall.
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Post by Crystal_ on Sept 22, 2011 11:16:23 GMT -8
Slash+Hyper Beam does almost 89% min to Starmie anyway.
Screech+Beam is rarely worse than (or rarely needed over) slash+Slash/beam, when taking into account the accuracy. Perhaps if Persian is dying and then something else like Tauros is beaming there is a slightly bigger difference. But screech is overall even more situational than bolt/slam imo.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 22, 2011 12:14:54 GMT -8
With Slash+Hyper Beam, Starmie can Recover after the Slash.
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 22, 2011 18:22:45 GMT -8
Screech is key. I would much rather have it than thunderbolt. Screech is the way to beat unparalyzed chansey and it can also be pseudo-passed to tauros, snorlax, zapdos, articuno, lapras, golem, rhydon, etc
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Post by Crystal_ on Sept 23, 2011 0:28:35 GMT -8
But Slash+Slash is still doing almost the same damage to Starmie than screech+beam (280 vs 300), with 99% acc rather than around 76%. You will need two screeches to ko full Starmie as well, so he can just para and then switch, reseting the -2/-4 defense drop, much like Chansey can. But, when is Chansey unparalyzed anyway? When it's asleep?
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Post by garrinred on Sept 23, 2011 11:27:08 GMT -8
This needs to get moved to the Persian discussion.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 23, 2011 19:15:15 GMT -8
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 24, 2011 0:40:32 GMT -8
I like it, but you mention Night Shade as superior over Thunderbolt too much. Remember that Thunderbolt will get a CH every now and then, which makes it deal enough damage to 3HKO Jynx and 4HKO Zam. Night Shade is only superior versus Exeggutor and the odd Jolteon in the long run, realistically.
Furthermore, you mention that you need a lot of prediction skill to use Gengar properly, but you don't give a lot of examples, which I'd recommend doing. Minor point though.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 24, 2011 4:36:51 GMT -8
If it sounds like I mention Night Shade as superior to Mega Drain, it's a little bias seeping through. I most certaibly do not mention it as superior to Thunderbolt. Note in particular how I list Thunderbolt as one of the standard moves, and Night Shade as just one of the options(and less common than Mega Drain) for the 4th move. You know?
Added a sentence about how T-bolt usually does more damage than Night Shade.
Examples, huh? That's a good idea! :-)
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 24, 2011 6:25:50 GMT -8
Heh, yeah my bad. I got the impression you proposed it over TBolt but I was wrong.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 24, 2011 6:56:34 GMT -8
Really good write-up, very thorough and informative. Just a couple of critiques:
These options exist, but there is a reason the standard set is standard.
I think it could be nice to explain that reason or just re-word that sentence differently.
For the non-lead Gengar, you explain how to use him, but not his purpose. And I don't think a late Gengar is common, but using him as a secondary sleeper ("backup sleeper") is.
Other than that, I think it's superb. =)
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Post by garrinred on Sept 24, 2011 8:45:03 GMT -8
Added some more about Gengar's late-game purpose.
Thinking of a way to reword that sentence(I agree it's awkward) and also an example or two of the kind of prediction Gengar requires.
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I wrote a small section on Blizzard as well, so check that out.
. It'd be cool to be able to talk things over in real time.
