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Post by garrinred on Sept 24, 2011 8:49:07 GMT -8
Thinking of writing Rhydon or Golem next. Still don't feel totally comfortable enough to write Zan(but I still have dibs on him).
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Post by cheese on Sept 24, 2011 12:20:36 GMT -8
I meant I'm doing the pages like this one. Just wrote that one, and about to do the BL, UU, and NU metagames. Would it be more logical for the links to go to 1st gen OU analysis of that pokemon instead of that pokemon in general? Also, I attempted an article on Jolteon a couple of days ago. It's since been corrected/improved a bit, and I love how all my British spellings were changed into the American equivalent! ;D
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 24, 2011 15:19:37 GMT -8
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Post by garrinred on Sept 24, 2011 20:12:40 GMT -8
Needs Reflect+Agility.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 26, 2011 5:24:37 GMT -8
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 26, 2011 8:33:31 GMT -8
Good stuff!
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on Sept 26, 2011 17:19:26 GMT -8
I created Venomoth's UU page using the previous template. EDIT: Also added Raticate's UU page. Those red links are going to all be blue eventually! EDIT 2: Also created a basic starter page for the BorderLine tier. It uses our tiers, and I give a brief explanation as to why Articuno, Jolteon, Charizard and Sandslash were either bumped up or down.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 5:25:59 GMT -8
Absolutely fantastic.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 27, 2011 8:50:14 GMT -8
Haha, awesome Zilch!
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 27, 2011 9:00:03 GMT -8
nice job on the BL page. which section did you put that in? I'd be great to have that below the OU page I made on the metagames list page.
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Post by Crystal_ on Sept 27, 2011 9:00:37 GMT -8
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 9:53:47 GMT -8
... While I can't say that it isn't helpful, because it is, you're VERY biased (Lapras as more useful than Starmie? Sing on every Lapras set? Seismic Toss as clearly inferior to Reflect on Zam? Snorlax as a MUST on every team?). I want to rename it to Crystal's guide to playing RBY OU, because your opinions are stated as facts, which they are not.
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Post by Crystal_ on Sept 27, 2011 10:19:37 GMT -8
They are facts. Non-Snorlax/Tauros team can be made superior by adding Snorlax/Tauros in. Sing Lapras because it's better than the other non blizz / tbolt options, especially when you can still select another. SToss is clearly inferior, no doubt (it's the difference between being a threat and being not). And Lapras being slightly better than Starmie is just my opinion (mentioned it), but Starmie can't be considered much better than Lapras at all.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 10:57:16 GMT -8
No they're not facts. They all depend on your team in general, your opponents team, your strategy etc.
Even IF they were facts, they'd still be heavily disputed, and they are. Therefore I encourage you to stop labelling it as anything else but your own opinion.
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on Sept 27, 2011 12:16:01 GMT -8
nice job on the BL page. which section did you put that in? I'd be great to have that below the OU page I made on the metagames list page. I planned to have the BL page on the same category as the OU page, but it's pretty odd that none of the other gens have BL. I'd need to find out exactly what Eric's planning before I go any further with it.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 12:28:52 GMT -8
I've tried getting in touch with him on the wiki but he's not on there as frequently as previously. Shame.
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Post by posthuman on Sept 27, 2011 12:32:09 GMT -8
crystal's guide is subjective, but it's a good guide. keep it named "Crystal's Guide" and it's fine
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 12:38:21 GMT -8
Ete has said that we can't do that...we have to do a lot of fixing to keep it more objective. I do not want that guide to be the one that defines RBY in its current state.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 12:48:34 GMT -8
Alright, so I'm going to combat this one Pokémon at a time.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 27, 2011 14:32:09 GMT -8
Ete has said that we can't do that...we have to do a lot of fixing to keep it more objective. I do not want that guide to be the one that defines RBY in its current state. Yeah, the wiki is supposed to be mainly objective. Calling it "Crystal's RBY Guide" would be fine I think.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 27, 2011 14:37:04 GMT -8
Ete has said that we can't do that...we have to do a lot of fixing to keep it more objective. I do not want that guide to be the one that defines RBY in its current state.
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Zilch
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Post by Zilch on Sept 27, 2011 15:04:52 GMT -8
Having a page called "Crystal's RBY Guide" also is a bit odd for a wiki. It's not a blog, after all.
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Post by garrinred on Sept 27, 2011 16:17:14 GMT -8
I vote we ask Nerd and WW to collaborate on a guide and make it as objective as they can.
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Post by jorgen on Sept 27, 2011 19:14:02 GMT -8
nice job on the BL page. which section did you put that in? I'd be great to have that below the OU page I made on the metagames list page. I planned to have the BL page on the same category as the OU page, but it's pretty odd that none of the other gens have BL. I'd need to find out exactly what Eric's planning before I go any further with it. No other gens have BL analysis listings because for literally every other generation, the BL "tier" is a banlist for UU rather than a metagame in itself.
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 27, 2011 20:20:54 GMT -8
yeah, this is why I can't get too involved in the PO (and smogon) stuff, because it's too hard to deal with all the opinion and tradition. you'd think with a new project like wiki, they'd be okay with innovation.
the guide is incredibly subjective and fundamentally biased toward crystal's unorthodox views.
and yeah, Gen 1 is the only place where BL is a viable metagame and not a banlist. that's why there isn't yet a page for it.
i made the point that what if (and when) someone else (let's say Isa) makes a RBY guide... if Crystal's is called "RBY Guide" then where does the other guide fit? I told EtE that each guide should have "by X" after it.
Silly. Silly. Silly.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 27, 2011 20:41:37 GMT -8
I used to stand strong to tiers being based on OU viability, as opposed to "all tiers playable" and "UU with BL for banned stuff", but I've grown liking having multiple games to play. Regardless though, PO is more general and is probably sticking with OverUsed, BanList, UnderUsed. I wouldn't mind seeing our method become a trend with other generations, but that's not up to me.
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Post by hipmonlee on Sept 27, 2011 21:09:05 GMT -8
Since this has nothing to do with smogon, and since smogon's rby tiers suck, there is really no reason for you to follow smogon's tiers..
Just call what you call BL UU and write a guide for that. The problem here isnt anything to do with tradition it's just semantics.
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 27, 2011 21:14:59 GMT -8
We'll leave it until EtE replies.
Also if we do BL, we should also do NU. Perhaps LC as well.
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Post by hipmonlee on Sept 27, 2011 23:31:39 GMT -8
Ok, since this thread brought this to mind again, instead of waiting for BK and arti to finalise how tiering was going to work in the future at smogon, I just went ahead and deleted BL from smogon tiers.
I thought I would let you know since it seemed loosely related to this. The point was, Smogon having a uu tier implies that that uu tier is in some way authoritative (at least in smogon's view) which it really wasnt.
I know this wasnt really about smogon, but I am just letting you know, partly because I think a lot of you guys took an interest in this last time when I brought it up, but mainly because it seemed like you were reluctant to overrule smogon in terms of what is official or objective.
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 28, 2011 0:09:05 GMT -8
<3
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