BL Tourney Possibility

[Underboss]

So I read Crystal write once that BLs are not usually considered for basing a Tourney around and I have to ask, why not? The Tourney could just be regular play but No Ubers and No OU. So then we start using the likes of Gyarados, Victreebel, and Jolteon (maybe). Also, I think Articuno and Dugtrio get pretty sick in BL.

Also, we should consider banning NFEs like Kadabra, Haunter and possibly Gravaler and Rhyhorn, out of the worry that it might make BL alot like OU.

Also, we'll be able to find out whether Jolteon centralizes BL too much, which would then mean that Jolteon would have to be moved to OU. Just like Uber status is determined by power in OU, not Uber I figure OU status is determined by power in BL, not OU. We can't know for sure until we start testing.

Also, I love me my Gyarados =D.

[posthuman]

BL is a ban tier for UU just like Uber is for OU. Jolteon can't centralize the tier because of this.

A BL tournament is possible or some sort of thing where you can use 2 OU, 2 BL, and 2 UU Pokémon on your team (something like that). Let's try to finish the UU tourney first though.

[Underboss]

So does that mean I think of OU as a ban tier for BL? So Jolteon doesn't need to be banned from BL play by being moved to OU because he doesn't "centralize the tier" then.

[Dexter]

BL is MEANT to be a ban tier, but the way you guys seem to ban everything that could possibly even be useful, it's basically UU. I'd be all for a BL and below tourney

[WaterWizard]

Underboss,

The idea is that a pokemon is first tried in OU. If he doesn't work there, he's moved to UU. Then the UUs that centralize are moved to BL. Power in BL doesn't matter. BL is an Ubers tier (UUU), so centralization doesn't do anything. However, if we notice some interesting traits or potentials during the BL tournament (which I support having soon), we can try those pokemon out in OU (always feel free to do this), and if the strategy/pokemon is a success, it could potentially be moved to OU. The point is, BL (just like Ubers) isn't supposed to be balanced (even if it is).

A Neapolitan tournament can take place after a BL tournament, once we're more confident about the tiers and each pokemon's place in them.

As for the BL tournament, I agree that Kadabra and Haunter should be banned as it makes the tier seem to "OUish" to some people. Gives us a chance to use some of the cool pokemon like Hypno and Clefable. Graveler is outclassed by Dugtrio, Sandslash, and the Nidos, so I doubt that will be a problem.

I look forward to this!

[Underboss]

Just because BL is a ban tier doesn't mean you can't have competitive battling in it. And so I want to make sure we get our BL tier right. Which means that maybe some OU pokemon that don't centralize BL should be brought down to BL to play with the other BLs. But in RBY, I think all 14 OUs would centralize if put in BL, but we can't know for sure until we test it. Which is why we should test out BL, and see if any OUs don't over centralize in BL.

Thinking about possible OU pokemon that can get along in BL, I think Slowbro might have a possibility of that since there are a lot of RLers there that can beat him, but I don't know for sure. Persian would rape with speed and slash and Jynx would rape with STAB IMO. Lapras would be just a bit too bulky and centralize, but again I'm not sure because I haven't tried it. The other 10 I think are obviously too powerful for BL.

[WaterWizard]

Once Jolteon is dead and Venusaur is sleeping, Slowbro comes out and owns. He's wayyy to bulky for UU/BL.

Persian probably doesn't centralize very much. Idk. But again, it's not about that. Persian is a) viable in OU and b) used very often, which earns her the classification of OU.

Jynx is too diverse for BL.

The only moves I can see are moving Articuno up to OU.

[t3h Icy]

Well we had a nice Round Robin BL tourney that ran pretty smoothly. The BL metagame seems a little dull, but nothing really dominates.

[Underboss]

So OU criteria is not about centralizing the lower tier, but it's about these weird criteria such as viability and popularity? Well, isn't Kingler viable in OU and if he became popular, would he suddenly be OU?

[Crystal_]

So OU criteria is not about centralizing the lower tier, but it's about these weird criteria such as viability and popularity? Well, isn't Kingler viable in OU and if he became popular, would he suddenly be OU?

This is the Metagame. If a pokemon is good for OU (or UU / NU), it will become more used; if it is not, it won't. The "more used" Pokemon will become OU (or any other non-ban tier, depending on the pokemon).

[OU] Tauros: Good -> More used -> OU
[UU] Vaporeon: Not good -> Less used -> UU
[NU] Beedrill: Not good -> Less used -> UU -> Not good -> Less used -> NU
[Uber] Mewtwo: Good -> More used -> OU -> Too good -> Uber
[BL] Nidoking: Not good -> Less used -> UU -> Too good -> BL

As you can see, the only "automatic" tiers are the ban tiers.

The usage is the result of the power and usefulness and hence the standard tiers ARE and MUST BE based on usage.

[WaterWizard]

I like this, Crystal.

[Crystal_]

We CANNOT ban Kadabra and Haunter just because we cannot do whatever we want with each tier. K & H aren't OU or Ubers so they are allowed in BL.

We decided to allow NFEs in UU and NU, desicion which I didn't agree though, but we cannot ban nfes in one tier and allow in other tier.

[posthuman]

True. Kadabra and Haunter are both too good for UU, so they're BL.

[t3h Icy]

Is Haunter really that good in UU? I could imagine Kadabra would be broken, but Haunter really only has his type going for him.

[Underboss]

So, we'd have to test him in Tier 3. And if he overcentralizes in Tier 3, he gets moved to Tier 3/UU ban tier, UberUU/Tier 2.5. And then if he gets used often in the Tier 2 metagame, he can be put back in Tier 2/BL.

[WaterWizard]

Test Haunter in what? I don't know what Tier 3 is... If you mean test him in UU, that was done years ago. He is like a super Porygon. I'm fairly certainly he will centralize. But by all means, try it out.

[Crystal_]

Haunter in UU? Great special + Tbolt for waters and Zard + Mega Drain for Graveler + Psychic for neutral coverage + Explosion for... whatever + Hypnosis. Too powerful.

[Underboss]

So he gets placed in either UberUU or BL.

[WaterWizard]

correct. he gets placed in uberuu, aka bl (for now). I get what you're saying about BL. we'll get to that eventually. don't fear

[GGFan]

BL is certainly a valid metagame. I'm pretty sure it's a Smogon mentality that BL tournaments aren't possible, though I can provide links to BL tournaments done in the past.

[Underboss]

Yay, finally someone accepts the existence of a BL metagame.

[WaterWizard]

anything is playable...

[Underboss]

You can't have a metagame with less than 6 pokemon. It takes about 10-15 or so to make it interesting.