OU rankings - 2012

[Crystal_]

This place is so dead...

I went creative here. This is based on Tauros being 10, and lets say, Golbat 0. If X gets a 5 for example it means that Tauros is better than X as much as X is better than Golbat/whichever is the worst.


Tauros 10
Snorlax 8.8
Chansey 8.6
Exeggutor 8.0
Alakazam 7.4
Starmie 7.3
Golem 6.8
Lapras 6.6
Cloyster 6.4
Dragonite 6.2
Rhydon 6.2
Slowbro 6.1
Jynx 6.1
Zapdos 6.0
Gengar 5.9
Persian 5.7
Victreebel 5.7
Jolteon 5.6
Articuno 5.4
Gyarados 5.2
Clefable 5.2
Moltres 5.1
Kingler 5.1
Hypno 5.0
Dodrio 5.0
Kangaskhan 4.9
Aerodactyl 4.9
Tangela 4.8
Sandslash 4.7
Raichu 4.7
Poliwrath 4.7

[Isa]

Does this mean that one Tauros = 2 Dodrios? =p

[Crystal_]

No, because one tauros doesn't mean infinite Golbats either

[Isa]

I think Tauros is so good that infinite Golbats are roughly on the same level as him

[WaterWizard]

fairly ridiculous

[GGFan]

I'll make this topic more interesting by talking about Spain instead.

El Cid is the only extant medieval Spanish epic. It is a panegyric poem about the life of Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, famous warlord and politician. Vivar's exploits had been recorded as early around 1043, when he became known as the "The Battler," or Campidoctor in Latin chronicles and El Campeador in vernacular accounts. However, the most enduring title he won was Mio Cid--from the Arabic Sayyidi, "My Lord."

Before his death, the Cid was celebrated in a panegyric Latin poem known as the Carmen Campidoctoris, and in a Latin chronicle, Historia Roderici. Both works were written in the east of the pennisula, where he achieved his greatest military success.

I feel it would pertinent if we took a look at a few lines of the poem, which have I have translated for my audience.

"Spidiós el caboso/de cuer e de veluntad,
sueltan las rriendas/e piensan de aguijar;
dixo Martín Antolínez:
'Veré a la mugier/a todo mio solaz,
castigar los he/comó abrán a far.
Si el rrey me lo quisere tomar,/a mí non m'incal.
Antes seré convusco/que el sol quiera rrayar.'

"The brave Cid thus made a devout farewell. The riders slackened their reins and rode away. Martín Antolínez said: 'I will go see my cherished wife, and I must teach my household how to conduct themselves. I don't care if the King wishes to confiscate my property. I shall rejoin you before sunset.'"

[Crystal_]

This was intended to be a serious thread actually.

But now I feel like posting this:



Problem Isa?

[Isa]

Yeah, broken image

[Dexter]

So, all else equal, a team with Tauros + Golbat is better than a team with dodrio + kangaskhan?

[jorgen]

To be serious and state the obvious, it'd help if overall numerical ratings were decided by some sort of criteria. As it stands, it's just numbers without any sort of context.

[Isa]

Jun 19, 2012 16:14:09 GMT -8 Dexter said:

So, all else equal, a team with Tauros + Golbat is better than a team with dodrio + kangaskhan?

Actually, that's Tauros+any given amount of Golbat = Dodrio+Kanga

[David the Chansey]

A ranking would be so much easier lol

[Crystal_]

it's just potential in OU, which doesn't mean than 5.0+5.0 equals Tauros or that Dodrio should be used half the times Tauros is, or anything like that.

The numbers are meant to answer this question: If Tauros has 10 potential and Golbat has 0 potential, which is the potential of others?
So common sense here: You expect Alakazam to be between them, but you also expect it to be closer to Tauros because there is more difference between Alakazam and Golbat than between Tauros and Alakazam.

[Dexter]

lol aerodactyl = kangaskhan and almost as high as hypno/dodrio

good job/good effort needs work though

[Crystal_]

How is Dodrio much better than kanga anyway? Kanga is a decent alternative to Persian and tripling up on normal sweepers is viable (kinda gimmicky but still).
And pretty much everything Hypno does, either Exeggutor or Alakazam does it better.
Oh, and aero walls non-surf Snorlaxes. that's why it isn't < 4.0

[jorgen]

I like numbers. I really do. But sliding scale of Tauros to Golbat is a silly way to do it. You're not actually quantifying it, you're deciding a tier list beforehand and then assigning numbers after the fact based on little else than "this kind of sort of looks about right". Shit's weak, yo.

I feel like if you're going to do numbers you need quantifiable components to sum up to some overall "metagame influence" score. And no, breaking it down into further arbitrary components ain't gonna cut it. A decent measure might be to just count how many OUs each Pokemon matches up well against according to criteria similar to these:

Head-to-head: Number of OUs a Pokemon wins a straight-up head-to-head against

Offense: Number of OUs a Pokemon can do significant damage to on the switch (3HKO at least on average from the strongest move).

Defense: Number of OUs a Pokemon is not significantly damaged by on the switch (can switch in at least 3 times on average). Half a point for everything it can switch in on with prediction.

Status: Access to Paralysis, Sleep, or Freeze moves. Haven't figured out a way to quantify these yet; these ones might just have to be arbitrary bonuses after all - although these bonuses will be defined a priori to later determine what Pokemon are better as a result of having them, rather than having the scores defined after having a tier list in mind in order to "justify" it.

Other: Versatility in sets. Counter. Explosion for killing things. General ability to be an X factor. The unquantifiable criterion that we're going to try to quantify anyway by counting the number of OUs that are likely to be screwed over by having these moves. For example, how many things can Chansey catch with Counter for the kill? How many otherwise impenetrable defensive walls could be baited and killed by an Eggsplosion? How many Pokemon that normally check standard Snorlax get thrown for a loop by Amnesia (or any of its myriad other gimmick sets)?

This is the closest thing I can think of as an actual direct measure of power in a metagame. It needs usage statistics first because, honestly, we're not going to seriously give matchups against Flareon serious consideration. However, once you have an OU tier that defines what, in general, is worth using in the first place, criteria like this might get you a more precise notion of how influence is distributed in the RBY metagame (or in any other metagame, really, if you added more criteria to account for new moves and stuff).

[Crystal_]

haha Jorgen, I did this only for fun really. I made a ranking list for whatever reason and then I felt like adding numbers...

But the speed stat itself could be another thing to take into account. I can tell you that between offense and defense Snorlax will be almost as high as Tauros if not already as high, and Snorlax will surpass Tauros after considering SD/versatility.

[Dexter]

aerodactyl has low defense and takes a big chunk from body slam (can't switch in repeatedly), gets paralized and loses its only asset, and has no offense to speak of. Discuss.

Hypno and dodrio are amazing

Oh and this numbers thing won't work. 81 fully evolved pokemon, you can't really give them all their each individual number without it becoming meaningless

[Crystal_]

Ignore the numbers. Just ignore the whole thread guys.

Rest aero still walling lax though.

[Crystal_]

Bumping so that Isa can see the Golbat troll image (post #7)

Also because this forum is dead

And because Slowbro may be a bit too low in the list.

Victreebel too.

[Isa]

lol@Trollbat

[WaterWizard]

One of the worst threads, besides Trollbat and GGFan.

[Crystal_]

how is this not @ black hole already?

[WaterWizard]

wish granted