Training with Icy

[t3h Icy]

Hi all y'all! So I decided to play RBY for the first time in about a year today, and got to play with most of our new members here. Always cool to see new faces here and get to battle different playstyles and all that jazz. I'm still a bit rusty, but I'm working on it! :D

More importantly though, and sorry that this is going to sound a bit mean and arrogant, but you guys are pretty terrible at RBY, lol. >_> Our veteran players are still solid, but you new guys have a long road ahead if you want to get better at this game. So I'm going to spend some time training you guys up for whoever wants it! I'm not sure how I'll balance playing RBY again with University and other IRL stuff, but I'll figure it out.

And you might ask how I'm so sure that I'd be a good tutor, and I'd say that Posthuman, Isa, and WaterWizard can all vouch for me and being good at teaching newer players. All of them (and others) got to be elite level players and there's no reason why anyone else can't be either, all it takes is some guidance and experience.

Training with me is usually one-on-one and can be whenever, so long as we both have a lot of time. Feel free to ask me whenever you see me around, and I can always give some quick tips too.

There are a few trends that I can go over here though:

1) Guessing is not reading.

RBY is heavily based on being able to effectively predict your opponent, and being good at it is key to becoming a powerful player. If you can't predict the opponent, there's a likely chance they will be predicting you instead and then they can run train all over you throughout the match.

The basics of reading the opponent is to understand what they're thinking, what they want to do next, what they're planning, and how risky they're willing to be. If the opponent is playing very ABC, you can just stop them before they do their next move. If they're scared to use risky Explosions, then you don't have to worry about that as much.

Prediction is a tricky concept to explain, but I've seen that most people who are good at it are confident players. I have very rarely encountered players that are great at prediction be shaky people. A lot of it also comes with experience, but there are some basic concepts I can go over (more so one-on-one, since they take time to go over).

2) Prediction is only good if it's effective.

You can predict me all you want, but if you're not getting anything out of it, then it's not helping you. An extreme example of this would be say, I have Chansey out and using a mix of Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Thunder Wave, while you switch about Starmie for Ice Beam, Exeggutor for Thunderbolt, and a Paralyzed Alakazam for Thunder Wave. Certainly, you would be excellent at predicting what I'm doing, but if you aren't gaining anything out of it, then it has no purpose. Make sure your prediction gain you some damage, status conditions, KOs, or better positions. Otherwise, choose a different choice to react to what they're doing.

3) Plan ahead.

To win a game, you have to knock out all 6 of the opponent's Pokemon, plain and simple. In order to do this, you need to plan ahead how you're going to take out each Pokemon. For example, suppose you have Tauros, Chansey, and Exeggutor remaining, vs Tauros, Starmie, and a damaged Snorlax. If you were to use Chansey against the damaged Snorlax to take it out, the opposing Tauros will be the next switch-in and either finish off Chansey, or you would have to take a hit when you switch Chansey out. Suddenly now, the opposing Starmie is a big problem.

Think of a plan with how you're going to take out all the opposing Pokemon, have some backup ideas if you run into some bad luck, make sure the route you're taking doesn't lead to any problems like in the Chansey example above, and see if what you're planning to do is the most likely way to win.

4) Understand the concept of risk vs reward.

Risk vs Reward is basically a generalization of how risky a decision is and how rewarding it is. For example, if the opponent has Chansey out, a Gengar in their party, and you're using Explosion with a damaged Exeggutor, there's a high reward of taking out Chansey, and a medium risk of uselessly sacrificing Exeggutor. Chansey Freeze dittos tend to be high risk, high reward. Using Golem against Zapdos is low risk, and a fairly high reward (based on what the opponent does next turn). An example of a high risk, low reward scenario would be using three Electric Pokemon on your team, etc. If you're taking too many huge risks and not getting anything out of them, you either need perfect prediction, or you need a better plan, because any mistake will cost you, while you're not getting anything out of them. Also on the flip side, if you're sticking with low risk, low reward, you're not gaining anything, and will be slowly whittled away by the opponent.

Ideally, you want the lowest risks to get you the highest rewards, and to get them, you need to be very comfortable with working with any position of the game, all the different possible situations, and learning how to control the game.

5) Pressure.

Pressure is a bit of an invisible factor that is hard to see if you read battle logs, but I'm sure everyone has felt what it is as they've played. Pressure is essentially control of the match, where the opponent is reading everything you do, making your choices look dumb, and putting you in situations that are in their favor.

For example, suppose you have Chansey out and a damaged Gengar against Exeggutor out, Golem, and a frozen Chansey. During each turn, the opponent can decide to use Psychic or Explosion, while you have to worry about what to pick. If the opponent picks Psychic, you want to avoid Gengar taking it, and if the opponent picks Explosion, Chansey getting hit by it is basically game over. So the opponent is the player with control, and any mistake is likely fatal. The opponent on the other hand can choose to use Psychic while taking Ice Beams, and decide when to use Explosion. In fact, Exeggutor can wait until 1% and still decide to use Psychic, never using Explosion at all. The main thing is that the opponent is the one with the control. If the opponent uses Psychic and hits Chansey, the opponent is still fine, but a single mistake by you costs you the game.

Planning ahead also helps you recognize how to avoid getting into these situations in the first place. In the turns prior to that example above, if you can see how you might end up there, you probably want to avoid it if possible, since it gives the opponent a large advantage over you.

That's an extreme example and due to the complexities of RBY, it's hard to create a more realistic scenario, but hopefully that's a good enough of an explanation. The main idea is putting your opponent in bad situations where you have all to gain, and while the opponent can sneak out of it, it's significantly more risky for them, and you're getting something out of it (damage, status, KOs, etc).

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Hopefully that's a good start for you guys. I think I understand now while Dre thinks Tanklax is the best Pokemon ever, lol.

If anyone wants some training, I'm happy to help. Don't feel like you need to prove yourself or anything to me, just come to learn. It's like going to the gym; for anyone there, it doesn't matter how far they are, only that they are improving, meaning that they themselves are no longer a factor, only time is, and given enough of it, they'll reach their goals. In RBY, if you're improving, then all you need is more experience, and you can become a powerful player. All some of you need is understanding of concepts and some guidance! ;D

[Isa]

I love it when Icy uses this as a blog. Quality always comes out of it.

[t3h Icy]

Thanks. It used to be subtitled "and rants by Icy". :P

[David the Chansey]

It does sound a liiiiiiiiiiiittle arrogant haha

[Isa]

He has the skills and the history to back up his arrogance. =p

[t3h Icy]

lol <3

I helped Redemption a bit tonight, so hopefully that's a start! Come join in the fun you guys! :D

[posthuman]

Icy's a good tutor as he explains everything in depth, but play other people too, such as WaterWizard if he's available, or else you'll conform too much to Icy's style. I'm speaking from experience.

Of course, I eventually transcended Icy; just battle against a variety of people and playstyles and you'll be fine.

:D

[Dexter]

Here's more tips for noobs

1) Always train your pokemon with love and care. Before each game you must meditate to contact your pokemon. Ask them if they are ready for battle. If they tell you they're not ready then you cannot battle that day. You should find out why the pokemon don't want to battle, maybe it's karma or a spiritual imbalance you have to take care of.

2) When team building and are choosing between a stronger pokemon and a cool pokemon choose the cool one!!

3) Go with your gut. Sometimes click random moves to throw your opponent off.

4) If you use the same team a lot you should probably have like the first 6 or 7 moves planned out, or a basic plan of what you're going to do every time. And then completely ignore that plan and refer to step 3.

5) If you use gengar don't even try to predict explosions and stuff unless you feel like being fancy. It's enough to just let your opponent KNOW you have it and then they outpredict themselves. THIS TIP REALLY WORKS LOL I DONT KNOW WHY PEOPLE STILL EARTHQUAKE MY SNORLAX OR WHATEVER

6) Switching is for pussies! Just attack a lot because luck favors offense. But what if there was like a critical switch where you could switch for free sometimes and not take damage that would be pretty cool. But the game doesn't work that way. So just use ice beam/blizzard and body slam as much as you can. Don't use any other move! (except maybe sleep or explosion)

ill think of more later.

[Zilch]

Make sure you always have Swift so you won't get screwed over by the 255 rule at an important moment.

[t3h Icy]

<3 Posthuman. Yes, generally if you train with me, you get better than me, and then I get sad. Kind of like King Kai.

Also, thank you Dexter for your input!

[WaterWizard]

Yes

[cheese]

Honestly the one thing I would say for people that are new to RBY is to accept "luck" as part of the game. People constantly whining whenever a Starmie gets a CH Thunderbolt against a Slowbro (or whatever) gets old very quickly.

Other than that just have fun and remember to ask questions if ever you're unsure about anything... most people are happy to give a bit of advice in a friendly battle.

[t3h Icy]

I'll add some more tips that are a bit more specific/advanced.

1) Know your damage ranges.

This is very important and can cost you if you make a mistake about them sometimes. Most people have a good sense of how much damage moves do, but in situations where it's very close, it might be good to know. An example is suppose you have Exeggutor vs Tauros with 48% HP left. Will Psychic KO it? Things like that. The best ways to deal with this is to either learn the damage formula (which isn't too difficult, it's just basic algebra), or just have a list of damages somewhere, either physically on paper, or a Notepad file, etc.

Also, don't forget that damage varies. All attacks do 255/255 to 217/255, which is roughly 100% to 85%. For example, Tauros can OHKO Jynx with Hyper Beam, but the maximum is only 102%, meaning the minimum is a mere 86%. In fact, the chance of getting the OHKO is a 4/39 chance (ignoring accuracy, CHs, etc). Not very good chances, so take note of the minimums of your attacks too.

2) Adaptation is the next step after prediction.

So suppose this. Player A and Player B are battling each other, and Player A starts reading Player B very well and bodies him. Now, assuming Player B is well aware of this, Player B will be able to react accordingly, and start reading Player A back. Then adaptation begins. After figuring out each others predictions and playstyles, it becomes a game of adaptation and changing how you read (and perhaps plan out the match). Eventually at the highest levels, it becomes a roughly 50/50, though there may be (complex) cues to still help out. Or otherwise, nash equilibriums become nice to use.

Once you learn how to predict your opponent, see if they start figuring out you back. If not, just continue what you're doing. If they do, you have to change up what you're doing in response, or else, YOU become the predictable player. It's what the psychological game of RBY evolves into.

3) Don't get flustered.

RBY is luck based and can be unforgiving sometimes. Sometimes a decision will set you way back in the game, and sometimes you'll do all the right things and then you'll get abysmal luck. Regardless of what happens, don't let yourself start playing worse and letting your emotions get in the way. In general, players will get wreckless when they start feeling hopeless, and it usually leads to bad things. Just play off whatever happens and keep going.

4) Look for small cues and patterns.

Now obviously, there's the big picture about prediction and the like, but there are a lot of little things that you can look for and do that can help you. One simple thing is waiting before selecting a move. Generally, waiting implies you're thinking, but then just go with your initial choice. The waiting can sometimes make an opponent anxious and second guess themselves. Likewise if you're playing someone that's not familiar with that, you can in return figure out when a player is switching or thinking themselves.

A small choice cue is watching when players like to heal during stall wars. Suppose you have a Paralyzed Chansey against another Paralyzed Chansey. If you see the opponent always healing at the same amount, you'll know when it's safe to switch (to avoid damage or Thunder Wave). A lot of people like to heal around the 50% mark to get the full use of Softboiled/Recover, though other percentages are common too. An example might be ~60% for Chansey which is when Tauros can KO with Hyper Beam. Try to see if you can catch your opponent being predictable with when they're healing. Likewise, try to mix it up too if you can do so safely.

Less of a cue and more of a mindgame, announce your viable option(s), or even tell your opponent what you're doing next. It can be used in a bunch of ways, depending if you're telling the truth or not, and how the opponent responds to it. It throws some people off.

There are tons of little things to pick up on players, so try to analyze the way the opponent is thinking. If you and the opponent are at a point where it's literally become an adaptation to each others adaptations, then perhaps start considering what is most consistently viable (nash equilibrium stuff, etc).

5) Learn all the OU Pokemon, and more!

There are some staples that can be played brainlessly (like Tauros), and there are also staples that can be very versatile (like Chansey), and there are some Pokemon that are mixes of that and how viable they can be (Zapdos). It's good to learn all of the OU Pokemon, how they work, what roles they can take on, how their match-ups go, how they synergize with the rest of the team, etc. I strongly suggest learning each Pokemon, both for finding out what you might like and having additional options of Pokemon to choose from, and learning how to fight against everything and what ways certain Pokemon can be defeated.

And you don't have to stop at OUs. A lot of BLs can be useful and tricky in certain situations. In fact, if you have the time, go through all the final forms, analyze them a bit, see if you can think of how they can be useful, or otherwise, what's holding them back, etc. Knowledge is power!

6) Quality vs quantity teams.

Some players like using 60 billion teams (WaterWizard), and some people prefer sticking to just a couple (me and others). By playing the same team all the time, you learn lots of little tricks and how to handle any sort of opponents with them. There is ridiculous amounts of data that can be collected in RBY due to all the randomness, scenarios, etc, and the more you play with a team, the better you get at picking the best options at all times. The downside though, is every team can be counterpicked, whether it's using Golem/Rhydon against a Zapdos team, or having a team that can keep up the pace of playstyle better, etc. It's good to have a couple alternative teams.

The other side of it is using a ton of teams, all different in whatever ways. By playing like this, you learn more about how to use each Pokemon, what their own tricks are, and by using many different teams, you become harder to plan against as your last remaining Pokemon are a total mystery. The downside is that you may not be as ahead of the game mathematically and be missing out on certain damage range setups, how to go from early to mid to late as viably as possible, etc.

What's better is a matter of opinion, though I will say that using just one team is a bad idea since you become counterable. I suggest at least a few, but from there, any number is fine, so long as you're understanding why it's useful to be using the number of teams you're using.

7) Play to learn.

Sure, winning is the goal of the game, but playing to learn is what gets you to that goal more consistently later on. Take some risks, try weird things, learn why some ideas are good and some are bad. Naturally, if you're learning, you'll be winning anyway, so sacrifice a few games to try some ideas you might have. You only need to be playing to win if you're in a tournament, but since 99% of any player's matches are just friendlies, learn about the game as you play. Of course, spend some time doing your absolute best to get proper practice and a good standing of where you are so far, but doing that all the time will keep you from trying new things and figuring out more of the game.

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Those should do for now. Again, any questions or advice, feel free to ask whether here or on PO! :D

[Dre]

This is good stuff, but I think most players here at the level where they understand these basic concepts.

I think what's more helpful to newer players are specific advanced tips. For example, to not sac your eggy until the opponent's rhydon is gone, who is best to take sleep, specific chain-switches and pivots that work as a one-time in matches to put you in advantageous position. For example, starmie to-eggy is a great way at the start of the match to get eggy in on their chansey and have a shot at sleeping something.

Specific tips are generally more helpful than basic concepts once people are at the level where they use standard teams and understand the concept of a 'metagame', which is where most people here are at.

[t3h Icy]

The thing is that specific tips are hard to go over as each game is different and dynamic. Not all cases are true anyway. For example, I'm quite fine sacrificing Exeggutor against Chansey if I have other Pokemon (say, Starmie with Surf) to handle Rhydon. Maybe I'll go over the lead metagame next and perhaps a few chain-switching scenarios, but I'll try to keep it as general as possible.

Also, I can't imagine every player getting something out of every point I'm making, just that by going over all the basic things, nobody misses out on anything. In other words, it's making sure everyone is fully understanding everything there is.

[posthuman]

Jan 3, 2013 0:21:16 GMT -8 Dexter said:

Here's more tips for noobs

1) Always train your pokemon with love and care. Before each game you must meditate to contact your pokemon. Ask them if they are ready for battle. If they tell you they're not ready then you cannot battle that day. You should find out why the pokemon don't want to battle, maybe it's karma or a spiritual imbalance you have to take care of.

2) When team building and are choosing between a stronger pokemon and a cool pokemon choose the cool one!!

3) Go with your gut. Sometimes click random moves to throw your opponent off.

4) If you use the same team a lot you should probably have like the first 6 or 7 moves planned out, or a basic plan of what you're going to do every time. And then completely ignore that plan and refer to step 3.

5) If you use gengar don't even try to predict explosions and stuff unless you feel like being fancy. It's enough to just let your opponent KNOW you have it and then they outpredict themselves. THIS TIP REALLY WORKS LOL I DONT KNOW WHY PEOPLE STILL EARTHQUAKE MY SNORLAX OR WHATEVER

6) Switching is for pussies! Just attack a lot because luck favors offense. But what if there was like a critical switch where you could switch for free sometimes and not take damage that would be pretty cool. But the game doesn't work that way. So just use ice beam/blizzard and body slam as much as you can. Don't use any other move! (except maybe sleep or explosion)

ill think of more later.

For those of you who don't know, Dexter was once the best of us all. His tips will lead you to victory.

[lilith]

awesome post dexter! i am awaiting your next round of tips...

Jan 3, 2013 0:21:16 GMT -8 Dexter said:

Here's more tips for noobs

1) Always train your pokemon with love and care. Before each game you must meditate to contact your pokemon. Ask them if they are ready for battle. If they tell you they're not ready then you cannot battle that day. You should find out why the pokemon don't want to battle, maybe it's karma or a spiritual imbalance you have to take care of.

i tried this today and i think my tauros is telling me that it's tired of tauros mirrors and that's why it never hax slams in them. could this be true, or am i misinterpreting this message from the karmic bull(shit) realm?

halp!

2) When team building and are choosing between a stronger pokemon and a cool pokemon choose the cool one!!

this tip has made me a much better player. i've improved so much over just a few days! in coolness. yay. everyone wants to be my friend.

3) Go with your gut. Sometimes click random moves to throw your opponent off.

i'd like to add on to this a bit and mention that you can't truly click random moves unless you have random moves. like fire blast. and especially metronome. even if your opponent predicts it, they can't do anything about it... now that's what i call pressure

6) Switching is for pussies! Just attack a lot because luck favors offense. But what if there was like a critical switch where you could switch for free sometimes and not take damage that would be pretty cool. But the game doesn't work that way.

don't forget dragonite's critical switch rate of 85%

[t3h Icy]

Hope I was able to help you guys out! I won't have the time to do any more of this though, but maybe Isa or WaterWizard can gives some tips and the like when they have free time. Or not, they're busy too lol.

[WaterWizard]

I just began another work-from-home job so maybe once I get ahead on my work I can devote some time to this.

If I do have some free time, I may take on an apprentice...