What Would you Change?

[Agent Syrup]

I'm making this thread so people can discuss any changes they would like to suggest for Plus. I know I have a few.

[Agent Syrup]

I think Gyarados and Aerodactyl should have kept their flying typing. They already had completely unique typings and I think they were more dynamic with the flying type. x4 weakness to electric meant Gyarados had to "stay on his toes" (doesn't actually have toes), but now he has no counters whatsoever (weakness to Dragon type isn't a counter when you are mutually super effective against each other). Also immunity to Earthquake makes for interesting switching opportunities, this is even more interesting with Aerodactyl as he a rock type.
I know I was disappointed with Aerodactyl because I was looking forward to using him (like in rby) but in a balanced environment. But now he might as well be considered a different Pokemon.

[t3h Icy]

We're definitely open to changes, but too bad nobody plays, lol.

[Isa]

If someone has a server that we can use and abuse...

[Agent Syrup]

I want to know your opinion on some "non rby' mechanics being implemented. Because while I love Gen 1 I think there are some mechanics that bare to be changed.
First off Freeze and Poison, one is former is overpowered while the latter is underpowered. I think it would be good to give a thawing chance every turn for Freeze. And for Poison, 1/8 of HP works well in other gens so why not have it in here. If not then I think we should look for something else to make it worth while (or perhaps a more modest fraction like 1/10).
Another idea for Freeze is for a frozen Pokemon to be "thawed out" by rock and fighting moves as well (Ice types weakness). Though it would be more of a smashing then a thawing.

[Isa]

All of that requires changes to the source code, Poison is viable in my opinion without a buff, the thawing suggestion got shot down when I suggested it almost a year ago, thawing out from other types isn't something I am too happy about.

But most importantly, it'd require changes to the source code, and I'd like to avoid that.

[Agent Syrup]

(source code changing aside) You dislike it? Trying to catch your opponent on a thawing move adds a lot of dynamic to the game. But with only one type being able to thaw the opportunity is too thin, in fact there is even a chance that fire won't be on your opponent's team at all! Having three thawing types increases predicting dynamic and adds a bit of balance to any other wise disgustingly overpowered status.
As for poison... I suppose I should experiment a bit with Toxic+ Leech Seed stalling before forming a solid oppinion.
Also that leaves me with a question. Who has the ultimate authority with Plus?

[t3h Icy]

Freezes are balanced because they're rare and can only happen from a few moves. Ice is an offensive type and its balance is in it being a horrible defensive type (or otherwise use Ice moves non-STAB). Ice resists only Ice while being weak to Fire, Rock, and Fighting, and neutral to everything else.

Poison sucks so we made Sludge super powerful, Poison Sting the strongest of all multi-hit moves, and threw in a Poison OHKO move which works on everything. Poison the status condition is more useable now too since Toxic is actually reliable to use, defensive Pokemon exist more realistically, and it can be comboed with (Leech Seed/Tri Attack, Wrapping moves, Confusion, etc).

Fire sort of balances out now that Burns are actually useful due to Physical Pokemon being more viable, as well as Bugs and Grasses not being awful either. Thawing with Fire moves is an interesting spin, that hasn't been considered too much since it's bound to be rare on top of it having little impact (assuming since a thawed Pokemon must have been hit by at least two moves, chances are they're nearly dead). It could be interesting from a mindgame perspective too.

Plus is pretty open to everyone though the heads are Isa, WaterWizard, and myself, with Zilch, Posthuman, and Harrison having helped a bunch initially. So basically staff. Regarding any changes, we'd need to see activity because changing things based on theorycrafting and lack of a metagame is silly.

[Agent Syrup]

It all comes back to us not being able to play the game. Someday Plus will be able to shine... someday....

[Agent Syrup]

Welcome to another eddition of "What AgentSyrup Thinks you Guys are Doing Wrong!"

Okay just joking, but I do have some ideas I'd like to share about the RBYPlus moves.

And here they are:
-Bone Club becomes ground type (priority ground would be way more interesting)
-Bonemerang becomes ground type (....why not...)
-Psywave gets +1 priority ( not really a useful move to begin with)
-Leer gets +1 priority (not really a useful move to begin with)
-Make a move (maybe kinesis?) that lowers the foes special by one (I'm surprised that was never done, that would be a really fun move to use)

Okay thats all I have for now. Feel free to discuss... just remember Isa gets the last say in all things Plus now.

[Isa]

Bone Club and Bonemerang are exclusive for Marowak, and I think they're just fine as Ghost type moves. If nothing else, we're running low on Ghost moves without them. =p

Psywave is eh, no doubt - giving it +1 priority won't change that, however. It'd be like...giving Fearow Self-Destruct, or something. It's a buff, but a very weird one that doesn't solve the problems the move/Pokémon face in the first place. I'm open for a remake or buff, but it has to fill a purpose. Same goes for Leer, although I'd argue Leer is more useful than Psywave.

Having a move that lowers the special of a foe would be unique. There's no move in any generation that lowers Special Attack and Special Defense at the same time (there's Tickle however, that does the same on the physical side), let alone in RBY. When WW and Icy were still figuring out what to do with all the moves, I suggested making Strength equivalent to Bulk Up of future generations - raising Attack and Defense by one step. WW didn't like this idea because the effect did not exist in RBY - there's no move that boosts two stats at once in RBY (and only Curse in GSC), and up until that point and this very day, RBYPlus only featured mechanics that were in RBY, with the exception of having a move with 30% chance to confuse the foe (only 10% chance of confusion exists in RBY). I don't have anything against the idea, but I feel that Plus isn't mine to change entirely as I wish even if I am the lead developer right now, because in the end, it's not my creation and I know what the original creators wanted it to be, so I'll keep it in line with that.

[Agent Syrup]

I understand your respect for WaterWizard's and Icy's intention with this game. However I feel they chose very arbitrary concepts to have as the basis of the game.
Let me give an example of what I'm trying to say: the only reason a special lowering move doesn't exist in RBY is because Nintendo simply just didn't put it in. Making a move like that is certainly with in the capabilities of the game's programming but it simply isn't there. However the same situation exists in RBY for Dragon moves. No real Dragon attack is in the game and yet its completely possible within the game's programming. The only reason a real Dragon attack doesn't exist is that Nintendo simply never put it in. However WaterWizard and Icy did create real Dragon attacks, something that never exist in gen 1, while complete reject other "non-rby" moves on the basis that it never existed in gen 1!

I think judging weather something is "rby" or not should be based on the move's mechanics and impact on the metagame, not weather or not it exist in legacy. Part of my reasoning is that what makes the rby metagame rby and what is to be considered rby by legacy are both open to interpretation. However considering an "rby like metagame" puts emphasis on how this new game will play and how the dynamics will go into it. Meanwhile considering the rby legacy might leave things in or keep stuff out based on "it didn't exist in rby", which is somthing that could hurt or hinder the true potential of the game. Its important to keep in mind that RBYPlus is first and foremost and game.

[Agent Syrup]

So... I have an idea that would better differenciate the elemental punch: give them negative priority but higher base power (like 110 or something).

That's all.

[esqueletor]

Hello fellas

I've been looking at your work with RBYplus and I think it's amazing how you created a fairly balanced metagame out of RBY mechanics.
My suggestions for improvements would be a little buff to Mewtwo, I mean, I know he's the god of RBY but still... No special moves except for Psybeam and no Recover, Rest or Amnesia... I think you nerfed him waaaay too harshly. Also BUTTERFREE ZOMG SO OP xD

I don't know if you still are working with this mod but I seriously hope you are because I'm eager to try and play it, I also understand that balancing this thing would take a lot of time and many players for testing pokemon/teams/moves... All I can give you is one player more

[piexplode]

nobody plays this any more but it's coded onto violetversion.psim.us/ so you might be able to get a battle or two there if you're lucky. Also since this forum is pretty dead as a whole I can probably get away with a quick advertisement of the main metagame on the server which is Violet version which is also an RBY mod but it's a lot less powerful etc. here's the guide on it pastebin.com/Rp8tHQcx so yeah that might interest u. Also if you want to be involved in the RBY community, as I said this place is pretty dead, but www.pokemonperfect.com/forums/index.php is very active right now (and I guess www.smogon.com/forums/ ... but I prefer Pokemon Perfect )

[esqueletor]

Awww that's too bad
Anyways, I checked the other options you mentioned, and I think they're pretty fun... but I don't know what in RBYPlus particularly got my attention... Also, sorry about the slow response but my computer screwed up. AGAIN.
I guess I can try the simulator now to see if I find some people to play with... also, I wouldn't like to see this site dead I hope to see people here more often.

Thanks bud