Counter on Golem/Rhydon
Feb 3, 2013 0:02:49 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Feb 3, 2013 0:02:49 GMT -8
Counter on the Rocks initially seems silly as Fighting attacks are basically non-existent in OU, and they resist Normal attacks, but the idea is that they are occasionally used to jump into Hyper Beam by Tauros and Snorlax. This is beneficial vs Tauros as Countering a (common) CH Hyper Beam does massive damage, and against Snorlax, they can follow-up after Counter as they're both faster.
Tauros Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 80-68 (160-136, 45-39% Counter)
Rhydon: 84-72 (168-144, 48-41% Counter)
Tauros CH Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 155-131 (310-262, 88-74% Counter)
Rhydon: 164-139 (328-278, 93-79% Counter)
Snorlax Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 85-72 (170-144, 33-28% Counter)
Rhydon: 90-76 (180-152, 34-29% Counter)
Snorlax CH Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 165-140 (330-280, 63-54% Counter)
Rhydon: 175-148 (350-296, 67-57% Counter)
And ideally, they would want to use Earthquake afterwards:
Golem Earthquake vs
Tauros: 142-120 (40%-34%)
Snorlax: 178-152 (34%-29%)
Rhydon Earthquake vs
Tauros: 159-135 (45%-38%)
Snorlax: 200-170 (38%-33%)
Looking at this, Counter does more damage than Earthquake in every case, although Earthquake could do more damage via Critical Hits. When considering CH-factored damage they still do less damage, though if a CH is the difference between damage and KO, definitely go for it. For example, if an opposing Tauros has 180 HP, and Hyper Beam did 80 damage to Golem, both are shy of KOing, and although Counter does more damage including on average, Earthquake has the possibility to finish him off. Outside of these cases, always use Counter.
Other points of interest is that Counter followed by 2x Earthquake or CH Earthquake KOs in all Tauros cases, though unfortunately only matches Earthquake normally. Countering Tauros CH Hyper Beam and following with Earthquake is always a 2HKO. Rhydon Countering Snorlax CH Hyper Beam followed by Earthquake is also enough to 2HKO in rare cases (550 max).
The nice thing though for planning is that you'll know exactly how much damage Counter will do, so if you see it did low damage, you may want to use Earthquake instead for the chance of a CH.
Another important point is if they can survive Tauros's Blizzard after receiving a CH Hyper Beam, which would let them follow-up with Earthquake to 2HKO.
Tauros's Blizzard vs
Golem: 234-199 (64%-55%)
Rhydon: 259-220 (63%-53%)
Golem has a 642/1521 (42%) chance of being 2HKO'd, while Rhydon has a 94/1521 (6%) chance of being 2HKO'd. When considering the chance of CHing and missing, these go up to 49% and 24% respectively. In other words, if a fresh Rhydon switches into a fresh Tauros that CH Hyper Beams, Rhydon Counters, Tauros Blizzards, Rhydon has a 76% chance of winning. And if Tauros gets scared off, he has at most 21% HP left, where even Chansey's attacks will finish him off. The other fun thing is that they are outside of Earthquake KO range, which would need to rely on CHing, which is a worse chance to KO than Blizzard even with accuracy factored in. This might be nice as it forces Tauros to use a slightly riskier move in which case, you may occasionally survive with more than a sliver of health left.
To sum up, I would recommend Counter on Rhydon, but not as much on Golem. Golem has higher Defense and lower HP, which isn't as ideal for using Counter, and on top has lower Attack to follow-up with. His additional Speed is negligible. However, Golem is already pretty good with his moveset. Rhydon on the other hand has mostly a filler for the 4th move including Surf, Substitute, Hyper Beam, and others. With Counter included, Rhydon gets more out of switching into Hyper Beams. Since Tauros Hyper Beams are more common and also more common to CH with compared to Snorlax, Rhydon actually gets to be useful with Counter. Snorlax Hyper Beams are fine too, but not as nicely effective. Snorlax CHs are very rare, but switching into one and following up with Counter does colossal damage. The nice thing about Hyper Beam is that it hits a nice area of damage where it's not too devastating that you have to hide your Rocks the whole battle, but also high enough to get some nice damage out of it. It's possible to still use Golem and Rhydon normally, but it's crucial to know your damage ranges if playing with Counter.
I'd recommend Counter on Rhydon if you use him particularly for switching into Hyper Beam, and for general use, it's still nice. It could also be useful for when the opponent Body Slams and switches (Tauros to Exeggutor for example).
Tauros Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 80-68 (160-136, 45-39% Counter)
Rhydon: 84-72 (168-144, 48-41% Counter)
Tauros CH Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 155-131 (310-262, 88-74% Counter)
Rhydon: 164-139 (328-278, 93-79% Counter)
Snorlax Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 85-72 (170-144, 33-28% Counter)
Rhydon: 90-76 (180-152, 34-29% Counter)
Snorlax CH Hyper Beam vs
Golem: 165-140 (330-280, 63-54% Counter)
Rhydon: 175-148 (350-296, 67-57% Counter)
And ideally, they would want to use Earthquake afterwards:
Golem Earthquake vs
Tauros: 142-120 (40%-34%)
Snorlax: 178-152 (34%-29%)
Rhydon Earthquake vs
Tauros: 159-135 (45%-38%)
Snorlax: 200-170 (38%-33%)
Looking at this, Counter does more damage than Earthquake in every case, although Earthquake could do more damage via Critical Hits. When considering CH-factored damage they still do less damage, though if a CH is the difference between damage and KO, definitely go for it. For example, if an opposing Tauros has 180 HP, and Hyper Beam did 80 damage to Golem, both are shy of KOing, and although Counter does more damage including on average, Earthquake has the possibility to finish him off. Outside of these cases, always use Counter.
Other points of interest is that Counter followed by 2x Earthquake or CH Earthquake KOs in all Tauros cases, though unfortunately only matches Earthquake normally. Countering Tauros CH Hyper Beam and following with Earthquake is always a 2HKO. Rhydon Countering Snorlax CH Hyper Beam followed by Earthquake is also enough to 2HKO in rare cases (550 max).
The nice thing though for planning is that you'll know exactly how much damage Counter will do, so if you see it did low damage, you may want to use Earthquake instead for the chance of a CH.
Another important point is if they can survive Tauros's Blizzard after receiving a CH Hyper Beam, which would let them follow-up with Earthquake to 2HKO.
Tauros's Blizzard vs
Golem: 234-199 (64%-55%)
Rhydon: 259-220 (63%-53%)
Golem has a 642/1521 (42%) chance of being 2HKO'd, while Rhydon has a 94/1521 (6%) chance of being 2HKO'd. When considering the chance of CHing and missing, these go up to 49% and 24% respectively. In other words, if a fresh Rhydon switches into a fresh Tauros that CH Hyper Beams, Rhydon Counters, Tauros Blizzards, Rhydon has a 76% chance of winning. And if Tauros gets scared off, he has at most 21% HP left, where even Chansey's attacks will finish him off. The other fun thing is that they are outside of Earthquake KO range, which would need to rely on CHing, which is a worse chance to KO than Blizzard even with accuracy factored in. This might be nice as it forces Tauros to use a slightly riskier move in which case, you may occasionally survive with more than a sliver of health left.
To sum up, I would recommend Counter on Rhydon, but not as much on Golem. Golem has higher Defense and lower HP, which isn't as ideal for using Counter, and on top has lower Attack to follow-up with. His additional Speed is negligible. However, Golem is already pretty good with his moveset. Rhydon on the other hand has mostly a filler for the 4th move including Surf, Substitute, Hyper Beam, and others. With Counter included, Rhydon gets more out of switching into Hyper Beams. Since Tauros Hyper Beams are more common and also more common to CH with compared to Snorlax, Rhydon actually gets to be useful with Counter. Snorlax Hyper Beams are fine too, but not as nicely effective. Snorlax CHs are very rare, but switching into one and following up with Counter does colossal damage. The nice thing about Hyper Beam is that it hits a nice area of damage where it's not too devastating that you have to hide your Rocks the whole battle, but also high enough to get some nice damage out of it. It's possible to still use Golem and Rhydon normally, but it's crucial to know your damage ranges if playing with Counter.
I'd recommend Counter on Rhydon if you use him particularly for switching into Hyper Beam, and for general use, it's still nice. It could also be useful for when the opponent Body Slams and switches (Tauros to Exeggutor for example).
