Disputed Placement List

[Underboss]

I'm hoping in this thread to record what we do the pokemon whose placement in the tiers isn't clear. Thus, they are placed in a Disputed Placement list between tiers until a final decision by the community is reached. Please tell me if you think any other pokemon's placement in a tier is in doubt and thus should be put in a disputed list. I think that we should decide these tier placements slowly and deliberately and it should be community decisions. If a pokemon's placement is in doubt or being debated among people, it will go on this list.

This week's hottest contested placement is: Poliwhirl


OU/BL Disputed Placement List:

Articuno - Currently in: OU |
Contestants:
Maintainers: WaterWizard, Underboss, t3h Icy, posthuman
Moved 6/09/10 to OU

Jolteon - Currently in: OU |
Contestants:
Maintainers: WaterWizard, Underboss, t3h Icy, posthuman
Moved 6/09/10 to OU

Rhydon - Currently in: OU |
Contestants: ggfan (thinks it could be BL)
Maintainers: Icy

Slowbro - Currently in OU |

BL/UU Disputed Placement List:

Clefable - Currently in: BL |
Is she really BL?

Kangaskhan - Currently in: BL |
Maintainers: ggfan, Crystal (thinks it's good where it is)
A key question is whether he would be too powerful a sweeper in UU.

Kingler - Currently in: UU |
Contestants: Icy (thinks it BL because it can hold it's own in OU)
Maintainers: Crystal (thinks it's not broken in UU)
Has uses in OU and BL, but is he full fledged BL material?

Moltres - Currently in: BL |
Contestants: Crystal (thinks it's UU because Charizard is UU)

Sandslash - Currently in: BL |
Maintainers: Crystal
Is he really strong enough to be BL? He could be a good balance against Electabuzz in UU.

Venusaur - Currently in: BL |
Contestants: Icy (thinks it's UU)
Maintainers: Crystal
Is he really BL?

Victreebel - Currently in: BL |
Contestants: Icy (thinks it's UU)
Maintainers: Crystal
Is he really BL?

UU/NU Disputed Placement List:

Arcanine - Currently in: UU |
Contestants: Crystal (thinks it's NU)

Kabutops - Currently in: UU |
Maintainers: Crystal (thinks usage in UU justifies its status)
It saw some use in the UU tourney as an SD user, but is it inferior to Kingler?

Ninetales - Currently in: NU |
Does she dominate NU?

Magneton - Currently in: NU |
Contestants: WaterWizard
Maintainers: Crystal
Used in UU grand finals.

Parasect - Currently in: NU |
Contestants: Dexter (thinks its top UU)
Walls Tangela and Electabuzz and has double powder

Poliwhirl - Currently in: UU |
Contestants: Crystal (thinks it should be NU or NU Ubers?), Zilch (thinks it might not over centralize NU)
Is he too good for NU? He will never be used in UU, though he is quick.

Porygon - Currently in: UU |
Contestants: Dexter (thinks it's NU)
Maintainers: WaterWizard (frequent UU user of Porygon), Crystal
Does Recover and total type coverage merit UU?




Be sure to share your thoughts by leaving a comment. Contestants will be added when opinions are made known.

[GGFan]

Jolteon is undoubtedly OU in terms of overcentralizing the BL metagame and its effectiveness in OU. The only argument against Jolteon seems to be that it's effectively walled by a few ground types, which isn't really convincing at all.

Kangaskhan should definitely stay in BL. In OU she's an inferior physical sweeper, and she isn't broken in BL thanks to her abysmal special stat. Also, she isn't really unique in any way, unlike Pokemon such as Kingler who at least offer a couple of distinct advantages when used in OU.

One Pokemon who I'd like to bring up is Rhydon. I've been thinking that maybe Rhydon is better suited for BL.

[Underboss]

But I put kangaskhan in the BL/UU limbo list, which means some people think he wouldn't be broken in UU play. What do you think?

[WaterWizard]

Mew - Currently in: Ubers
Contestants: Harrison (thinks it's NU)

[Underboss]

Okay, I'll put it on the list. Also, Parasect on Uber/OU disputed list =P

[Crystal_]

Articuno and Jolteon should be BL now. There is no proof that says otherwise. The OU battles that are happening now are will happen soon must decide whether they are BL or UU, depending on their usage.

Have anyone used Kingler in OU? NOPE, therefore it is UU. And imo it isn't to poweful for UU, so it is not BL.

vice versa goes for Kangaskhan, Venusaur and Victreebel = BL. Imo for Sandslash too (http://rby2k10.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bl&action=display&thread=153&page=1)

Arcanine is NEVER used in UU, so it's automatically NU .

Kabutops is used in UU so it's UU.

Ninetales: NU because it isn't used in UU.

Porygon: If is used in UU is UU.

Magneton: When I start playing RBY I used Charizard in OU once, is it OU? Nope. It should be used more to be UU.

Poliwhirl: We defenitely need an idea for it!!! I do not want to say this, but should be NU by now.

Moltres: Is worse than Charizard, and if it is UU, Moltres should be UU too. Remember that both were BL in Smogon, because they play(ed) with Wraping moves.

[Underboss]

Okay, I'll add your disputes to the list.

[t3h Icy]

Rhydon is a prime example of where usage vs mathematical abilities comes into play. Rhydon is certainly OU, but Golem almost always replaces it unless you really want the 40 Attack edge.

[Underboss]

You mean, that Rhydon is too strong for BL but not used that much in OU? That's the different between him and pokemon like Cloyster. Cloyster has usefulness in OU and is sometimes used in OU, but he doesn't quite have enough effectiveness to be used a lot in OU and thus doesn't even dominate BL in the same way Rhydon (probably) would.

[Crystal_]

Rhydon is more used in OU than for example Jolteon, Persian, Articuno and probably Slowbro.

[Underboss]

Rhydon is not used that much in OU IMO. Persian is definitely used more. And Slowbro possibly too. Although I will say that Rhydon is used more than Articuno and Jolteon.

[Crystal_]

I use Rhydon nearly the same amount of times than Golem.

[posthuman]

Rhydon is OU even though Golem is typically used over him. I would agree that this is a good example of the union of usage and mathematical viability.

[Underboss]

Yeah, even though Rhydon isn't used that much in OU, he is still used decently often. Often enough to be considered OU. Also, he would probably over-centralize BL because he has a lot of mathematical viability, and thus can't be placed in any other tier for that tier's sake. This is yet another reason he should be OU.

[Zilch]

With Electrode and Magneton running around in NU with their Thunderbolts and Thunder Waves (and in Electrode's case, Explosions), is Poliwhirl really that prone to centralizing NU? Sure, he's still at the top of the NU metagame, but I'm not sure he'd dominate the game per say. Is it the Hypnosis/Amnesia combo that makes him awesome? It's something I really would like to test. Real shame there aren't any good Razor Leaf users in NU unless you're goofy and use Ivysaur or Weepinbell.

[Underboss]

Well, we'd have to test it to see. If Poliwhirl doesn't over-centralize NU then he should be moved to NU, especially since he has no usage in UU.

[Crystal_]

Remember that Geodude totally walls electrics, so there aren't that good (like Graverler in UU really).
And abaut Parasect, I don't think Tangela and Electabuzz are very important to countered. Venomoth should still counter Tangela (and Zard obv) and Graveler (and Tangela) counter Electabuzz. And anyway, I don't see Parasect much in UU (though it could be a possible change in next days).

[posthuman]

What about Rhyhorn? Is he NU? He's a bit better than Geodude.

[Crystal_]

Yeah, I dont know why I said Geodude over Rhyhorn. Anyway both are NU.

[Underboss]

Right, so nobody thinks Rhyhorn and Geodude are UU right? XD

[Crystal_]

Why will they be UU if Graveler is UU?; is like Kadabra OU.

[WaterWizard]

Rhyhorn belongs in NU. He doesn't centralize at all. He is very useful, however. Just like Rhydon in OU. Geodude is outclassed by Rhydon, and certainly doesn't belong in UU. No questions.

[Inf]

Articuno - Currently in: OU |
Contestants: Crystal, Inf (thinks it's BL)

Jolteon - Currently in: OU |
Contestants: Crystal, Inf (thinks it's BL)

You can remove me from these.

[Crystal_]

Me too. I dont mind if they are currently BL or OU. It does not matter for the OU metagame.