Isa vs. Jorgen, OU, Game 2

[Isa]

Battle between Isa- and Jorgen started!

Tier: RBY OU
Mode: Singles
Rule: Unrated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: No Timeout
Rule: Self-KO Clause

Isa- sent out Jynx!
Jorgen sent out Jynx!
Jorgen: gl hf
Isa-: last time I said best of luck and we saw how that turned out
Isa-: so I'll go with the PO standard
Isa-: neutral luck

Start of turn 1
Jynx used Lovely Kiss!
The foe's Jynx fell asleep!

The foe's Jynx is fast asleep.

Jorgen: I'd rather go for karma
Isa-: either works

Start of turn 2
Isa- called Jynx back!
Isa- sent out Snorlax!

The foe's Jynx is fast asleep.

Start of turn 3
Jorgen called Jynx back!
Jorgen sent out Rhydon!

Snorlax used Body Slam!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Rhydon lost 11% of its health!

Start of turn 4
Jorgen called Rhydon back!
Jorgen sent out Exeggutor!

Snorlax used Earthquake!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Exeggutor lost 11% of its health!

Start of turn 5
Isa- called Snorlax back!
Isa- sent out Jynx!

The foe's Exeggutor used Sleep Powder!
Jynx fell asleep!

VuvuzelaBzz is watching the battle.

Start of turn 6
Isa- called Jynx back!
Isa- sent out Chansey!

The foe's Exeggutor used Psychic!
Chansey lost 121 HP! (17% of its health)

Start of turn 7
Jorgen called Exeggutor back!
Jorgen sent out Alakazam!

Isa- called Chansey back!
Isa- sent out Starmie!

Start of turn 8
Isa- called Starmie back!
Isa- sent out Chansey!

The foe's Alakazam used Thunder Wave!
Chansey is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Start of turn 9
Jorgen called Alakazam back!
Jorgen sent out Snorlax!

Chansey used Ice Beam!
The foe's Snorlax lost 20% of its health!

Start of turn 10
Isa- called Chansey back!
Isa- sent out Snorlax!

The foe's Snorlax used Earthquake!
Snorlax lost 115 HP! (21% of its health)

The_Joker is watching the battle.

Start of turn 11
Snorlax used Body Slam!
The foe's Snorlax lost 26% of its health!

The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Snorlax lost 130 HP! (24% of its health)

Start of turn 12
The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Snorlax lost 130 HP! (24% of its health)
Snorlax is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Snorlax is paralyzed! It can't move!

Isa-: :<
Jorgen: too buff
Jorgen: trainin at the gym too much
Isa-: yeah

Start of turn 13
The foe's Snorlax used Hyper Beam!
Snorlax lost 148 HP! (28% of its health)
Snorlax fainted!
Isa- sent out Exeggutor!

Start of turn 14
Jorgen called Snorlax back!
Jorgen sent out Alakazam!

Exeggutor used Stun Spore!
The foe's Alakazam is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Start of turn 15
Isa- called Exeggutor back!
Isa- sent out Jynx!

The foe's Alakazam used Reflect!
Reflect raised Jorgen's team defense!

Start of turn 16
Isa- called Jynx back!
Isa- sent out Starmie!

The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
It's not very effective...
Starmie lost 65 HP! (20% of its health)

Start of turn 17
Isa- called Starmie back!
Isa- sent out Jynx!

The foe's Alakazam used Thunder Wave!
But it failed!

Start of turn 18
Jynx is fast asleep.

The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
A critical hit!
It's not very effective...
Jynx lost 131 HP! (39% of its health)

Start of turn 19
Jynx is fast asleep.

The foe's Alakazam is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 20
Jynx is fast asleep.

The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
It's not very effective...
Jynx lost 70 HP! (21% of its health)

Start of turn 21
Isa- called Jynx back!
Isa- sent out Chansey!

The foe's Alakazam is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 22
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
Chansey lost 134 HP! (19% of its health)

Chansey is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 23
Jorgen called Alakazam back!
Jorgen sent out Snorlax!

Chansey is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 24
The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Chansey lost 273 HP! (38% of its health)

Chansey used Softboiled!
Chansey regained health!

Start of turn 25
The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Chansey lost 316 HP! (44% of its health)

Chansey used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Snorlax is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Start of turn 26
Chansey used Softboiled!
Chansey regained health!

The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Chansey lost 303 HP! (43% of its health)
Lutra is watching the battle.

Start of turn 27
Chansey used Softboiled!
Chansey regained health!

The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
Chansey lost 276 HP! (39% of its health)

Start of turn 28
Isa- called Chansey back!
Isa- sent out Exeggutor!

The foe's Snorlax used Selfdestruct!
Exeggutor lost 366 HP! (93% of its health)
The foe's Snorlax fainted!
Jorgen sent out Tauros!

Start of turn 29
Isa- called Exeggutor back!
Isa- sent out Jynx!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Jynx lost 132 HP! (39% of its health)
Jynx fainted!
Isa- sent out Starmie!

Start of turn 30
Starmie used Blizzard!
The foe's Tauros lost 31% of its health!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 107 HP! (33% of its health)

Start of turn 31
Starmie used Recover!
Starmie regained health!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 107 HP! (33% of its health)

Start of turn 32
Starmie used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Tauros is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 117 HP! (36% of its health)

ubers sux is watching the battle.

Start of turn 33
Starmie used Recover!
Starmie regained health!

The foe's Tauros is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 34
Starmie used Blizzard!
The foe's Tauros avoided the attack!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 114 HP! (35% of its health)

Start of turn 35
Starmie used Blizzard!
The foe's Tauros lost 31% of its health!

The foe's Tauros is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 36
Starmie used Recover!
Starmie regained health!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 114 HP! (35% of its health)

Start of turn 37
Starmie used Blizzard!
The foe's Tauros lost 32% of its health!

The foe's Tauros used Body Slam!
Starmie lost 112 HP! (34% of its health)

Isa-: your bull isn't as trained as your chansey was
Jorgen: the one thing
Jorgen: that isn't well trained
Isa-: y
Isa-: eah

Start of turn 38
Starmie used Thunderbolt!
A critical hit!
The foe's Tauros lost 4% of its health!
The foe's Tauros fainted!
Isa-: first CH
Jorgen sent out Exeggutor!
Isa-: in the tauros vs starmie matchup
Jorgen: weird

Start of turn 39
Starmie used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Exeggutor is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

The foe's Exeggutor used Stun Spore!
Starmie is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Start of turn 40
Jorgen called Exeggutor back!
Jorgen sent out Alakazam!

Starmie used Recover!
Starmie regained health!

Start of turn 41
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
It's not very effective...
Starmie lost 67 HP! (20% of its health)

Starmie is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 42
Jorgen called Alakazam back!
Jorgen sent out Rhydon!

Starmie is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 43
The foe's Rhydon used Substitute!
The foe's Rhydon made a substitute!

Starmie used Blizzard!
It's super effective!
The foe's Rhydon's substitute faded!

Start of turn 44
The foe's Rhydon used Substitute!
The foe's Rhydon made a substitute!

Starmie used Blizzard!
It's super effective!
The foe's Rhydon's substitute faded!

Start of turn 45
The foe's Rhydon used Substitute!
The foe's Rhydon made a substitute!

Starmie used Blizzard!
It's super effective!
The foe's Rhydon's substitute faded!

Start of turn 46
The foe's Rhydon used Earthquake!
Starmie lost 153 HP! (47% of its health)

Starmie is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 47
The foe's Rhydon used Earthquake!
Starmie lost 11 HP! (3% of its health)
Starmie fainted!
Isa-: now hm
Isa- sent out Tauros!
ubers sux stopped watching the battle.
The_Joker stopped watching the battle.

Start of turn 48
Jorgen called Rhydon back!
Jorgen sent out Exeggutor!

Tauros used Blizzard!
It's super effective!
The foe's Exeggutor lost 33% of its health!

Isa-: sorry for taking my time a bit, I am considering my options
v!nce [FR] is watching the battle.

Start of turn 49
Tauros used Body Slam!
The foe's Exeggutor lost 28% of its health!

The foe's Exeggutor used Sleep Powder!
The attack of the foe's Exeggutor missed!

Isa-: phew
v!nce [FR] stopped watching the battle.
Lutra stopped watching the battle.
Jorgen: aww

Start of turn 50
Jorgen called Exeggutor back!
Jorgen sent out Rhydon!

Tauros used Body Slam!
A critical hit!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Rhydon lost 13% of its health!
The foe's Rhydon fainted!
Jorgen sent out Alakazam!

Start of turn 51
Tauros used Body Slam!
The foe's Alakazam lost 52% of its health!

The foe's Alakazam used Thunder Wave!
Tauros is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Start of turn 52
The foe's Alakazam used Reflect!
Reflect raised Jorgen's team defense!

Tauros is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 53
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
Tauros lost 154 HP! (43% of its health)

Tauros used Body Slam!
The foe's Alakazam lost 25% of its health!

Start of turn 54
The foe's Alakazam used Recover!
The foe's Alakazam regained health!

Tauros is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 55
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
Tauros lost 173 HP! (49% of its health)

Tauros is paralyzed! It can't move!

Start of turn 56
Isa- called Tauros back!
Isa- sent out Chansey!

The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
Chansey lost 128 HP! (18% of its health)

Isa-: no CH

Start of turn 57
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
Chansey lost 122 HP! (17% of its health)

Chansey is paralyzed! It can't move!

ubers sux is watching the battle.
Isa-: FP
Jorgen: or that

Start of turn 58
The foe's Alakazam used Psychic!
A critical hit!
Chansey lost 83 HP! (11% of its health)
Chansey fainted!
Jorgen: phew
Isa- sent out Exeggutor!
Isa-: here we go
Jorgen: unless
Isa-: well yeah
Isa-: my choice is not obvious though in the least
Jorgen: uh oh
Jorgen: you aren't a snoozer, are you
Isa-: time will tell
Isa-:

Start of turn 59
Exeggutor used Psychic!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Alakazam lost 15% of its health!

The foe's Alakazam is paralyzed! It can't move!

Isa-: phew

Start of turn 60
Exeggutor used Explosion!
The foe's Alakazam lost 55% of its health!
The foe's Alakazam fainted!
Exeggutor fainted!
Jorgen: oh wait
Isa-: ?
Jorgen: I thought I lived
Isa-: no
Jorgen: oh I am dumb
Isa-: the additional Psychic aided
Jorgen: I was using the GSC calc
Isa-: ah
Isa- sent out Tauros!
Isa-: wait
Jorgen sent out Jynx!
Isa-: how does that differ
Jorgen: it uses 250 as the base power
Isa-: bar making my boom more powerful?
Isa-: instead of 340?
Jorgen: yes
Isa-: aha
Jorgen: you have to manually double it
Isa-: aha
Isa-: right
Jorgen: cmon wake up
Isa-: no FP please

Start of turn 61
The foe's Jynx woke up!

Tauros used Body Slam!
A critical hit!
The foe's Jynx lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Jynx fainted!
Isa-: well
Jorgen sent out Exeggutor!
Jorgen: dang
Isa-: we both got our wishes
Jorgen: now fp
Isa-: only if you do

Start of turn 62
Tauros used Body Slam!
The foe's Exeggutor lost 26% of its health!

---

The log ends here because my window froze. Exeggutor uses Psychic and I die, game over insert coin.

[jorgen]

Also worth noting is that Egg lived by 1HP. I got quite a few lucky breaks to wriggle my way back from my mistakes, wp Isa. Using Stun Spore instead of Sleep Powder on Starmie is not necessarily a bad play on my part, but pretty questionable (especially since I totally forgot that Sleep was an option), as was Subbing Rhydon to death against Starmie and pushing so hard to get Para on Starmie with Tauros. Forgetting Zam didn't survive was a silly blunder.

At the end of the day I guess I was less cautious and felt like playing a little wildly because I knew I had a 1-game cushion.

[Dre]

Stun spore eggy is pretty underrated in my opinion. I think psychic is overrated though. It only hits one early game pokemon, and is only optimal against lax and tauros, but eggy has often boomed by then, or can just boom on them anyway.

Looked like there was a bit of RNG drama at the end, but other than that looked like a pretty solid battle. This would probably be a good log for newcomers to understand competitive mechanics and MUs and what-not.

[magic9mushroom]

Jul 16, 2013 18:47:08 GMT -8 Dre said:

Stun spore eggy is pretty underrated in my opinion. I think psychic is overrated though. It only hits one early game pokemon, and is only optimal against lax and tauros, but eggy has often boomed by then, or can just boom on them anyway.

Psychic is a good annoyance. The damage to Chansey isn't all that bad, which helps somewhat with the Explosion mindgames.

[Isa]

So what would you replace Psychic with? Leech Seed?
It's his most damaging move when it is not resisted. Mega Drain isn't needed to 2HKO Golem or Rhydon, Psychic does that too.

And I have no idea why you think it's "overrated" when nobody's done anything to praise it or even claim it's strong.

[Dre]

I think it's overrated because I don't think it should be standard.

Psychic will be weak 90% of the time because the only pokemon that switch into eggy are psychics and chansey. That's why I prefer double-edge and mdrain.

Mdrain is great if they have a ground. Wait until you can only take one more hit then use it. Most people expect a boom here and go to their rock. You'll basically get a second life. If they have gar just switch. It also does more damage against starmie.

Mdrain/Dedge allows you to do real damage to half a team. Psychic allows you to hit a bad pokemon that isn't that common anyway. As for hitting lax and tauros, I think it depends on what status move you have. If you run spowder and have slept something, then booming is a good trade. If you run stun spore, then you can paralyse and do decent damage before going down, or even try a switch or boom.

[magic9mushroom]

Jul 16, 2013 23:33:42 GMT -8 Isa said:

So what would you replace Psychic with? Leech Seed?
It's his most damaging move when it is not resisted. Mega Drain isn't needed to 2HKO Golem or Rhydon, Psychic does that too.

Not always, it doesn't.

And I have no idea why you think it's "overrated" when nobody's done anything to praise it or even claim it's strong.

Dre thinks that standard sets are bad because they're expected and therefore won't do much damage to the things that switch into them. Problem is that non-standard sets also have issues (and generally bigger issues) hitting different stuff.

(Oh, and for the record, Dre, using DE on Chansey isn't a great idea, you're doing ~210 to Chansey and 70 to yourself instead of ~120 to Chansey with a spec-fall chance. If you really want to hit Chansey with Egg, use Egg Bomb.)

[Dre]

I'm not a hipster and hate all standard sets. I use lots of standard sets.

I actually think relying on expectation or surprise is gimmicky and really only use that on one pokemon, but that pokemon rarely uses the fourth slot anyway.

[v1nce]

Fact is you don't use a lot Psychic, but when you manage to save Eggy mid-late game, it wipes asses. That's not the case of DE, and I'm not counting occasional special falls. I like Mega Drain though for hitting waters on the switch ; for stun spore, I don't usually find the spot to pull it off. 

[magic9mushroom]

Jul 17, 2013 6:24:43 GMT -8 v1nce said:

Fact is you don't use a lot Psychic, but when you manage to save Eggy mid-late game, it wipes asses. That's not the case of DE, and I'm not counting occasional special falls. I like Mega Drain though for hitting waters on the switch ; for stun spore, I don't usually find the spot to pull it off. 

Biggest defensive use of Stun Spore is to stop Egg being setup bait for Dragonite. Other big use is in paralysing Starmie on the switch. Rest Egg uses Leech Seed and Psychic to shuffle and spread it further.

[v1nce]

I don't count Dragonite in my calcs lol. I know I should. But rest is more of a surprise move when the opponent attends an explosion imo. I don't question the viability of stun spore, just sayin that you  can't pull it off as often as you wish. EG, when there is an eggy in front of me, I avoid switching starmie in.

[Dre]

I don't like psychic because whilst it's good late-game, late-game isn't a part of eggy's role. It's simply a luxury for it to still be around then. It's like running gengar just to catch explosions; it's a gimmick that'll only happen every couple of battles against good players. If your eggy's toke is to be around in the late-game, then sure run psychic, but then you should probably drop explosion or sleep power or something like that.

Stun spore is great against psychics, who are the common switch-ins to eggy. It also does something to tauros if eggy stays around for that. This is why I'm happy to drop psychic, because stun spore gives eggy something to do other thsn boom against tauros, whilst still being optimal early-game as well.

Also, I don't mind DE recoil because you often plan to boom anyway. It forces the low health mindgames quicker.

[v1nce]

Every game is different, at least because of RNG's. You can't predict what will last late-game, especially something as bulky as an Eggy. And to be honest, vs. good players, it's quite hard to paralyze useful stuff with stun spore, not counting that your eggy is very often paralyzed at first. But hey, these are my experiences vs good and less good players, and I've not been playing for a very long time. Still, I consider my point of view relevant in the current metagame.

[Dre]

Every game is different, but it's matter of probability. Eggy sticking around til late game will happen once every few battles if you're hesitant to boom. Eggy having specials switch into him will happen basically every battle.

When you ladder a lot, it's best to use one solid team where every pokemon can perform it's role on a battle-to battle basis. This is because you can't anticipate what pokemon and playstyles you'll be up against.

Eggy will make use of stun spore and double-edge every battle (mega drain not as much, but I'd still say more than psychic, and mdrain has early-game uses). Psychic will be optimal in very few battles.

I guess I prefer stuff that works every battle because I ladder a lot. If you only do tourneys or verse the same 3-4 people over and over, it opt for stuff that generally works less often, but will work against your specific opponent.

And you're right, it is hard to paralyse stuff against good players. However, eggy is good at it because it's somewhat unexpected due to it not being standard, and the fact that it threatens chansey, who is the main status sponge. If you can scare out the main status sponge, then you can spread paralysis, which is why zam is considered one of the top paralysis spreaders.

[jorgen]

I can say that I've been in plenty of situations where I have to play around an Eggy in the late game. What determines whether it's a "late game" or "early game" mon is how you play it.

[Isa]

I can only repeat what Jorgen wrote. Play styles differ. Zapdos is a Pokemon mostly seen late - I think everything else can stick around for as long as you want it to. My Eggy lives long most of the time.

[Dre]

I did say a couple of posts ago that you can consistently make eggy stick around. Thing is, I think you should tweak your set, like run rest over boom or run an extra coverage move over spowder or something. I am aware that sleep and boom can be useful late game though.

[magic9mushroom]

Jul 17, 2013 19:30:30 GMT -8 Dre said:

Also, I don't mind DE recoil because you often plan to boom anyway. It forces the low health mindgames quicker.

You should be playing those mindgames at all levels of health. I'd Explode Egg at 100% in a heartbeat if I'd get Chansey with it and Starmie was in the wings.

[jorgen]

Yeah, DE doesn't really help since being at low health doesn't create mindgames since you could just Explode at any health. It just puts more pressure on you to actually pull the trigger, which in turn makes you either more predictable or more likely to pay dearly for miscalculation. If anything, you should be using Mega Drain to heal up if you want to create prolonged Exeggutor Explosion mindgames.

[Dre]

Yeah you should be exploding at high health, but people aren't going to be switching in rocks and gar when eggy is at 80%. They will, however, consider it when eggy is at 25% and can only take one more hit. That's what I meant by mindgames.

[Isa]

Mindgames go both ways.

[lilith]

Jul 18, 2013 5:41:27 GMT -8 Isa said:

My Eggy lives long most of the time.

i also like keeping eggy alive

also psychic helps with snorlax and snorlax is everywhere. gengar too.

having an option that punishes both rocks and gengar for switching in is pretty cool when you are trying to land explosion (i guess stun spore does too, but mega drain / double-edge don't)

i've also noticed that if i leave off psychic on too many pokemon i suddenly start losing randomly to lots of weird teams.

[Dre]

As I said before, there is nothing wrong with designing your team so that eggy stays around, but you have to question whether explosion is useful then.

It does certainly have uses late game dont get me wrong, but usually offensive exploders flick the switch early-mid game (eg. gengar, cloyster, lax. Golem doesnt count because he's a defensive boomer).