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Post by marcoasd on Mar 2, 2014 23:47:11 GMT -8
We've been talking about Mega Kick for a while. Time to make some calculation about MK combined with other attacks or CHs.
This involves Snorlax and Kangaskhan.
Body Slam + Mega Kick vs Body Slam + HB
CH MK + Hyper Beam (vs Snorlax)
and everything that comes to mind
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 3, 2014 0:07:15 GMT -8
Well, I don't see much point in running Mega Kick and Body Slam, too much overlap. What I was putting forward was running Mega Kick on Snorlax instead of Body Slam + Hyper Beam, and then using the extra moveslot for something else (I got to thinking about this when I used Mega Kick/Blizzard/Amnesia/Selfdestruct Snorlax for the exhibition match). The point is that Mega Kick by itself gets the potential 2HKO on Starmie and the 2HKO on Chansey that are a large part of the reason to run Body Slam + Hyper Beam.
It also is more likely (even after accuracy) to 3HKO Slowbro than Body Slam + Body Slam + Hyper Beam.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 3, 2014 2:05:26 GMT -8
Does Mega Kick+Hyper Beam 2HKO anything that BSlam+HBeam does not, coming from Lax?
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 3, 2014 2:29:47 GMT -8
Does Mega Kick+Hyper Beam 2HKO anything that BSlam+HBeam does not, coming from Lax? About a 50% chance to 2HKO Tauros (which is more like 1/3 after accuracy), and a possible but unlikely 2HKO on Zapdos and Exeggutor. Also usually 3HKOs Cloyster if they all hit. |
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 3, 2014 3:25:23 GMT -8
Kangaskhan vs Snorlax: CH Mega Kick 319-375+ Hyper Beam 205-241= 524 LOL, guaranteed KO.
They tried to give it something over Tauros to make it OU. So close...
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 3, 2014 3:50:34 GMT -8
Kangaskhan vs Snorlax: CH Mega Kick 319-375+ Hyper Beam 205-241= 524 LOL, guaranteed KO. They tried to give it something over Tauros to make it OU. So close... Well yeah, Mega Kick is one of only two reasons you'd ever use Kangaskhan (the other being Counter). The likely 2HKO from Zam's Psychic and Zapdos' Thunderbolt, the guaranteed 2HKO from Lapras' Blizzard or Starmie's Hydro Pump, the guaranteed OHKO from +4 Slowbro, the lack of (a powerful) Blizzard to screw over GolDon-Egg, GolDon-Nite, or GolDon-Zapdos switches, and the lower speed giving additional issues with Zapdos, Gengar, and opposing Tauros, though, are a pretty serious lead weight tied to its chances in OU. (Also, the chances of a Kangy critical Mega Kick are pretty low at 13%.  ) |
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 3, 2014 4:42:39 GMT -8
The likely 2HKO from Zam's Psychic and Zapdos' Thunderbolt, the guaranteed 2HKO from Lapras' Blizzard or Starmie's Hydro Pump, the guaranteed OHKO from +4 Slowbro, the lack of (a powerful) Blizzard to screw over GolDon-Egg, GolDon-Nite, or GolDon-Zapdos switches, and the lower speed giving additional issues with Zapdos, Gengar, and opposing Tauros, though, are a pretty serious lead weight tied to its chances in OU. (Also, the chances of a Kangy critical Mega Kick are pretty low at 13%. ) Those are the resons why I don't like the rocks at all. Kangaskhan can't wall Zapdos neither take explosions/HBeams, but is similar to Tauros, and at the end of the day is its natural backup (somebody uses Dodrio, but it's walled, or Persian that is more frail and can't use BSlam/HB properly, while still good). Having Gengar as the lead/using a team that doesn't care too much about Explosions, it can take that 6th slot in rock's place. Kangaskhan is legal in BL, but... maybe bottom bottom OU. |
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Post by magic9mushroom on Mar 3, 2014 5:07:25 GMT -8
(Also, the chances of a Kangy critical Mega Kick are pretty low at 13%. ) Those are the resons why I don't like the rocks at all. Kangaskhan can't wall Zapdos neither take explosions/HBeams, but is similar to Tauros, and at the end of the day is its natural backup (somebody uses Dodrio, but it's walled, or Persian that is more frail and can't use BSlam/HB properly, while still good). Having Gengar as the lead/using a team that doesn't care too much about Explosions, it can take that 6th slot in rock's place. Kangaskhan is legal in BL, but... maybe bottom bottom OU. If you're leading Gengar and running the four immutables, you're probarbly better off running Zam or Mie than Kangaskhan in that last slot. It would kinda suck to have your entire team demolished by ReflectLax. |
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 3, 2014 5:32:30 GMT -8
Those are the resons why I don't like the rocks at all. Kangaskhan can't wall Zapdos neither take explosions/HBeams, but is similar to Tauros, and at the end of the day is its natural backup (somebody uses Dodrio, but it's walled, or Persian that is more frail and can't use BSlam/HB properly, while still good). Having Gengar as the lead/using a team that doesn't care too much about Explosions, it can take that 6th slot in rock's place. Kangaskhan is legal in BL, but... maybe bottom bottom OU. If you're leading Gengar and running the four immutables, you're probarbly better off running Zam or Mie than Kangaskhan in that last slot. It would kinda suck to have your entire team demolished by ReflectLax. Yes, with Gengar I have an absorber, but there are other risks. With 6 pokemon there is always something risky, I'd just use a Reflect Snorlax of my own or rely on Egg (assuming the opponent has Earthquake and is smart enough to avoid Counter). You might say the same thing about a team that uses Persian or lead Zam (sleep bait) and a rock. (Persian has Slash vs Reflect but has other troubles, like Gengar) |
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Post by jorgen on Mar 3, 2014 6:58:25 GMT -8
I've said it before in the chat, I'll say it again. Mega Kick is probably the best way for an offensive Snorlax to free up a moveslot that would otherwise be used between two STAB moves. The accuracy sucks, but it can be used any time unlike the potentially turn-wasting Hyper Beam and has enough power to nab a 2HKO on Chansey (54-64%) and a 3HKO on other Snorlax (35-41%), assuming all of them hit.
Actually, 3 Mega Kicks is a clean 3HKO on Lax, whereas BS-BS-Hyper Beam can fail to 3HKO on damage rolls. However, para chance and knowing from your bslam damages whether or not you'll get the kill from Hyper Beam make up for this, to say nothing of superior accuracy.
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 5, 2014 13:14:41 GMT -8
I started to try Clefable with Mega Kick and it looks good. Mega Kick, TWave and Blizzard are always there, Thunderbolt, Sing and Counter in order as the 4th (depending on what the team needs, and maybe the ones that Chansey misses)
Mega Kick to take out Chansey/Zam, TWave screws the Waters and sweepers in general, Blizzard for the rocks, Egg and Zapdos (I don't know how much damage it can do, but Clefable is tough on both sides). TBolt for waters (and a 100% move). Sing is to have a backup sleeper. Counter won't give that much. The worst MU looks Snorlax, as Gengar hates TWave.
Maybe that's nothing new, but nobody uses it.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 6, 2014 4:03:23 GMT -8
Reflect Zam is a pain too for Clefable.
Blizzard 3HKO's Zapdos and Egg guaranteed.
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Post by marcoasd on Mar 6, 2014 8:35:57 GMT -8
Reflect Zam is a pain too for Clefable. Blizzard 3HKO's Zapdos and Egg guaranteed. Reflect Zam has to be dealt in another way, for sure, unless it's paralyzed and can be killed before it can use Reflect. At the end of the day, most of the time it will be asleep, or will take the place of a physical sweeper (and I think it's not a great deal). Overall, if Clefable can Paralyze and then take away enough health to Zapdos to the point it can be revenge killed, that's fine (not a counter, but...), and is a viable (obviously not standard) 6th in GolDon's place. |
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 6, 2014 8:49:51 GMT -8
Reflect Zam is unlikely to take sleep. SToss Zam is almost always used as a lead (it functions better due to hitting every lead bar Gengar harder with it, and Gar switches out), Reflect Zam is used midgame to spread paralysis or lategame to clean up and sweep.
/tangent
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