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Post by magic9mushroom on Apr 4, 2014 23:38:11 GMT -8
I really don't think Alakazam and Starmie are all that comparable, even though they often butt heads over a teamslot. Zam is a better Sleep absorber and paralysis spreader. Starmie is a better all-purpose check to otherwise difficult-to-counter Pokemon (e.g., Tauros, Slowbro). In my experience, Sleep Absorber is generally what I need more out of that teamslot, so I tend to pick Zam over Starmie. Well, they're more comparable than, say, Tauros and Exeggutor. They are both super-fast Psychic-types with Recover, Thunder Wave, and an awful Attack stat, which already nails down good chunks of their roles; Psychic typing and Recover allow them to brush off Psychics from Egg and generally stick around, Thunder Wave and enormous Speed make them decent checks to Tauros and anything else reliant on Speed, and their bad Attack stats mean they can't stop Chansey from switching in.
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Post by cheese on Apr 4, 2014 23:52:24 GMT -8
Right, I've attempted so combine people's opinions to create an average (median) ranking. I've also done the same for the rankings in 2011 for comparison. In case of a tie I've ranked by mean. There is a bit of ambiguity in these lists, for example what to do when wrap is included, when pokemon are ranked the same and when there are BL pokemon in-between, so please don't take it too seriously. The samples are also a wee bit too small so analyse in great detail. Anyway, enjoy!
2014 rankings (8 so far) median name (mean)
1.0 Tauros (1.50) 2.3 Snorlax (2.31) 3.0 Chansey (3.06) 3.5 Eggy (3.13) 5.0 Alakazam (5.25) 6.5 Starmie (6.75) 6.5 Lapras (7.00) 8.0 Rhydon (8.13) 8.5 Golem (9.00) 11.0 Zapdos (10.75) 11.0 Gengar (11.25) 12.0 Slowbro (12.38) 12.5 Jynx (12.50) 15.0 Persian (15.13) 15.5 Jolteon (15.25) 15.5 Articuno (16.00)
2011 rankings (11)
1.0 Tauros (1.73) 2.0 Eggy (2.18) 3.0 Snorlax (3.27) 4.0 Chansey (3.36) 5.0 Alakazam (4.64) 6.0 Starmie (6.55) 8.0 Zapdos (9.00) 9.0 Lapras (8.91) 9.0 Gengar (9.00) 9.0 Rhydon (10.00) 10.0 Golem (10.45) 12.0 Jynx (11.73) 12.0 Slowbro (12.55) 14.0 Persian (14.09) 15.0 Articuno (15.05) 15.5 Jolteon (15.05)
The main changes: -Snorlax has jumped up from very close to Chansey (means of 3.27 and 3.36 in 2011) to ahead of both Chansey and Eggy. -Eggy has taken a slight dip, from being a clear 2nd down to 4th (although it's very close to Chansey and Lax ahead). -Lapras has jumped up noticeably(mean from 8.91 to 7.00). -Zapdos and Gengar have fallen behind the Rocks.
In 2014 everyone (so far) has ranked Tauros, Snorlax, Chansey and Eggy in their top 4, and all except one ranked Zam 5th.
Also of note, the pokemon with the biggest standard deviations (in 2014) are: Articuno (3.02) Slowbro (2.92) Persian (2.10) Golem (2.07) Jynx (1.93) Gengar (1.83)
No major surprise that they are generally lower ranking, with a slight skew towards high risk/high reward.
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Post by magic9mushroom on Apr 5, 2014 1:45:56 GMT -8
The problem with Exeggutor is that it's really hard to quantify its effect on games. It's obviously huge, but how huge? Is it a straight 1-2 instant KOs? Is it less, because Sleep Clause means you can't throw sleep with something else? Is it more, because of its defensive uses? It shapes the meta to such an extent that its effect isn't really visible.
But on reflection, I'm bumping it up. I'd sooner build a team without Chansey than without Egg. Comparing the four top 'mons is apples and oranges (the only comparison you can really make is between Snorlax and Tauros) but Exeggutor is just an amazing Pokemon.
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Post by marcoasd on Apr 5, 2014 3:51:21 GMT -8
That's enough talk! Let's make tournaments with a maximum of X credits to "buy" some given pokemon. I think it would be interesting: you give a decreasing value to everyone, following the overall ranking. Results from that tournament can tell if the "general opinion" is biased.
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Apr 5, 2014 4:14:14 GMT -8
I think Draft tournaments would be easier to steer up, either that or the Napoli tournament we had ages ago (before I joined), where you could have 2 OUs, 2 BLs and 2 UUs.
The Draft tournament on Pokémon Perfect was lots of fun though, so I wouldn't mind having one of those here.
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Post by kel9901 on Apr 5, 2014 5:24:45 GMT -8
1. tauros 2. chansey 3. snorlax 4. exeggutor 5. golem 6. rhydon 7. starmie 8. gengar 9. alakazam 10. lapras 11. jynx 12. slowbro 13. zapdos 14. jolteon 15. persian 16. articuno dunno about the lower pokes, haven't really used them or played against them
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Post by posthuman on Apr 15, 2014 18:57:18 GMT -8
www.rby2k10.proboards.com/thread/1050/ou-rankings-fall-2011It's fun to see how things have changed. WW has Rhydon at 15th, Articuno at 11 and Gengar at 5th. t3h Icy has Slowbro at 17th, Alakazam over Snorlax and Jynx at 8th. I too had Alakazam over Snorlax and Gengar at 7th. Good old Garrin Red had Kadabra over Jolteon and Articuno at 15th. In today's metagame, Wrap or no Wrap, I think everyone would agree Gengar is not top 5 except maybe a resurrected WaterWizard. Times have changed. =p And looking back, I definitely agree with Crystal's old criticism of RBY2K10 mentality...we were way too hyped on Gengar. lol I'll also do honor posthuman and quote his post, last edited only a month ago: Since everyone's doing within-OU tiers: 1) Tauros 2) Chansey 3) Snorlax, Eggy, Alakazam 4) Starmie, Lapras 5) Gengar, Jynx, Zapdos, Golem, Rhydon 6) Articuno, Persian, Jolteon, Slowbro Edit: I WAS SO WRONG Tauros Exeggutor Snorlax Chansey Alakazam Lapras Rhydon Starmie Jynx Gengar Zapdos Persian Golem Slowbro Articuno Jolteon Hypno I feel so important. Ha I simply couldn't stop myself from changing it when I was looking through old stuff. Rankings will always be subjective, even if we're trying to be objective (just like with everything else in life). I don't pretend that my rankings above are fact, it's just the conclusion I've come to with my experience. I dropped Golem down because I've never enjoyed using him, and I've had much better luck with Rhydon recently. They're very comparable; I just feel that Rhydon's more consistently useful and Golem's more situational. I could be wrong. Also I hate Starmie.
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Post by marcoasd on Apr 19, 2014 3:56:45 GMT -8
Granted that I was lucky many times, the games told that: 1- Tauros, Snorlax and Exeggutor were always in the arena. Snorlax is maybe the most dispensable of the 3, but it's hard to say (=, maybe Egg is underrated and deserves to be #2) 2- Chansey has been used, but considered dipensable. Alakazam showed up just once, even if it had the occasion to shine. (-) 3- Lapras and Starmie have proven to be really good at those prices. (+) 4- The rocks made their appearance, and they look fair at the position they are. (=) 5- Gengar and Jynx proved to be disappointing; Gengar loses a lot in a non-Wrap environment (-) 6- Jolteon proved to be a viable lead (Zapdos isn't that good as a lead), but both times it faced a team without a rock (+) 7- Kangaskhan won me a game, but it takes the rock's slot. Viable in a BO3/5, if you predict they won't use Zapdos (+) 8- Clefable and Gyarados failed in difficult games. They can work, but are not consistent enough to challenge the top OU (-) - We just ignored Slowbro
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Post by cheese on Apr 19, 2014 10:21:41 GMT -8
Hmm... although I'm not participating I've given this some thought.
1) Pretty much expected. You want to use Lax, Tauros and Eggy because they're so good at what they do. 2) Personally I'd drop Chansey, but probably use Zam. I think people nowadays open with Zam a lot (in which case he's not worth the dosh) but he's fantastic late game too, especially if he can remain unparalysed. 5) Kind of surprising. Gengar's worth seems to be in free fall. :s 7) I would consider Kangy too. $6 is pretty good for what is basically an inferior Tauros.
No Kingler though?
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Post by marcoasd on Apr 19, 2014 11:20:19 GMT -8
Hmm... although I'm not participating I've given this some thought. 1) Pretty much expected. You want to use Lax, Tauros and Eggy because they're so good at what they do. 2) Personally I'd drop Chansey, but probably use Zam. I think people nowadays open with Zam a lot (in which case he's not worth the dosh) but he's fantastic late game too, especially if he can remain unparalysed. 5) Kind of surprising. Gengar's worth seems to be in free fall. :s 7) I would consider Kangy too. $6 is pretty good for what is basically an inferior Tauros. No Kingler though? Just like I said, Gengar is less valuable with no Bel, Cloyster and Dnite around. Kangaskhan can be used in Snorlax's place (or Chansey's, but it's risky) if you choose to pick the standard team (Zam,Egg,Chansey,Rock, Tauros), but I don't see it over Snorlax in a standard game. Hence, the risk to go without the rock. I don't know Kingler well enough, but I suppose it pairs well with Zapdos.
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