Proposal: Little-Cup-like meta that makes sense.

[magic9mushroom]

Okay, as I think we all know RBY LC isn't very popular. One of the reasons for this, I feel (and certainly the reason I have no interest in it), is the unattainable and somewhat arbitrary nature of the meta. Pokemon are usable that can't be obtained at level 5; they get moves that they couldn't know at level 5; there's power-based (as opposed to competitiveness-based) move bans.

So, I propose the following meta. I'm shit at thinking up names, but I'll call it RBY Mini until somebody comes up with a better name. The basic idea of the rules follows; suggestions for improvement are welcome and encouraged.

RBY Mini

- Pokemon must be Level 20 or below.
- Only legal Pokemon and legal movesets are permitted. (Legal EVs I'm not sure about; we might need to discuss this one.)
- Pokemon must not have evolved by any means other than level-up (ie, by stone or by trade).
- Evasion moves are banned. OHKO moves we can discuss.


For clarity, these are the pokemon banned and permitted under this ruleset. (I'll try to avoid making any errors, but do tell me if I make a mistake here. In particular, I might have missed a case where an evolved Pokemon can be caught at a lower level than that at which you can evolve it.)


Banned:

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Venusaur (evolves from Ivysaur at level 32)
Charizard (evolves from Charmeleon at level 36)
Blastoise (evolves from Wartortle at level 36)
Pidgeot (evolves from Pidgeotto at level 36)
Arbok (evolves from Ekans at level 22)
Raichu (evolves from Pikachu via Thunder Stone)
Sandslash (evolves from Sandshrew at level 22)
Nidoqueen (evolves from Nidorina via Moon Stone)
Nidoking (evolves from Nidorino via Moon Stone)
Clefable (evolves from Clefairy via Moon Stone)
Ninetales (evolves from Vulpix via Fire Stone)
Wigglytuff (evolves from Jigglypuff via Moon Stone)
Golbat (evolves from Zubat at level 22)
Gloom (evolves from Oddish at level 21)
Vileplume (hurr)
Parasect (evolves from Paras at level 24)
Venonat (only available at level 22 or higher)
Venomoth (hurr)
Dugtrio (evolves from Diglett at level 26)
Persian (evolves from Meowth at level 28)
Golduck (evolves from Psyduck at level 33)
Primeape (evolves from Mankey at level 28)
Arcanine (evolves from Growlithe via Fire Stone)
Poliwhirl (evolves from Poliwag at level 25)
Poliwrath (hurr)
Alakazam (evolves from Kadabra via trading)
Machoke (evolves from Machop at level 28)
Machamp (hurr)
Weepinbell (evolves from Bellsprout at level 21)
Victreebel (hurr)
Tentacruel (evolves from Tentacool at level 30)
Graveler (evolves from Geodude at level 25)
Golem (hurr)
Ponyta (only available at level 28 or higher)
Rapidash (hurr)
Slowbro (evolves from Slowpoke at level 37)
Magneton (evolves from Magnemite at level 30)
Dodrio (evolves from Doduo at level 31)
Seel (only available at level 22 or higher)
Dewgong (hurr)
Grimer (only available at level 23 or higher)
Muk (hurr)
Cloyster (evolves from Shellder via Water Stone)
Haunter (evolves from Gastly at level 25)
Gengar (hurr)
Hypno (evolves from Drowzee at level 26)
Kingler (evolves from Krabby at level 28)
Electrode (evolves from Voltorb at level 30)
Exeggutor (evolves from Exeggcute via Leaf Stone)
Marowak (evolves from Cubone at level 28)
Hitmonlee (only available at level 30 or higher)
Hitmonchan (only available at level 30 or higher)
Lickitung (only available at level 37 or higher, because you have to trade a Slowbro for it)
Koffing (only available at level 30 or higher)
Weezing (hurr)
Rhydon (evolves from Rhyhorn at level 42)
Tangela (only available at level 22 or higher)
Kangaskhan (only available at level 25 or higher)
Seadra (evolves from Horsea at level 32)
Seaking (evolves from Goldeen at level 33)
Starmie (evolves from Staryu via Water Stone)
Jynx (only available at level 25 or higher, because you have to trade a Poliwhirl for it)
Electabuzz (only available at level 33 or higher)
Magmar (only available at level 34 or higher)
Tauros (only available at level 21 or higher)
Eevee (only available at level 25 or higher)
Vaporeon (hurr)
Jolteon (hurr)
Flareon (hurr)
Omanyte (only available at level 30 or higher)
Omastar (hurr)
Kabuto (only available at level 30 or higher)
Kabutops (hurr)
Aerodactyl (only available at level 30 or higher)
Snorlax (only available at level 30 or higher)
Articuno (only available at level 50 or higher)
Zapdos (only available at level 50 or higher)
Moltres (only available at level 50 or higher)
Dragonite (evolves from Dragonair at level 55)
Mewtwo (only available at level 70 or higher)

Permitted (doesn't include Pokemon whose evolutions are also permitted):

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Ivysaur
Charmeleon
Wartortle
Butterfree
Beedrill
Pidgeotto
Raticate
Fearow
Ekans
Pikachu
Sandshrew
Nidorina
Nidorino
Clefairy
Vulpix
Jigglypuff
Zubat
Oddish
Paras
Diglett
Meowth
Psyduck
Mankey
Growlithe
Poliwag
Kadabra
Machop
Bellsprout
Tentacool
Geodude
Slowpoke
Magnemite
Farfetch'd
Doduo
Shellder
Gastly
Onix
Drowzee
Krabby
Voltorb
Exeggcute
Cubone
Rhyhorn
Horsea
Goldeen
Staryu
Mr. Mime
Scyther
Pinsir
Gyarados
Ditto
Porygon
Dragonair

Legal at level 20, but clearly in need of a ban:

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Chansey (goddamn you, Yellow)
Lapras
Mew

So, discuss this proposal. Is the choice of level 20 appropriate? The main factors I was trying to balance by making it 20 were to make most of OU naturally-banned (in particular, Tauros at level 21) and making Dragon Rage powerful-but-not-overpowered - how did I do there? Does the meta have some semblance of balance? Gyarados and Kadabra seem quite powerful (Kadabra doesn't get Recover, though), but are they TOO powerful? Did I succeed in making a meta where Butterfree doesn't suck? Do I have a life? (No.)

[jorgen]

So, basically Pika Cup, but with a weird anti-stone, anti-trade evo stipulation.

You could try Stadium's Petit Cup rules, which caps them at 30 instead of 20 and disallows any evolutions/overly-large Pokemon (the latter of which captures the spirit of LC moreso than a level cap imo).

[Isa]

I don't have the time to evaluate this properly, but RBY LC used to be by far the most popular side metagame for RBY on PO around spring/start of summer. There's been talk of having a RBY LC tournament on PO (as in, full on forum tournament) and there was a Battle of the Week in RBY LC as well. It's unfair to say that it's unpopular - RBY BL is unpopular, LC is not.

[magic9mushroom]

Yeah, I was going for Pika Cup and we might as well just say Pika Cup with 6 each, the total level restriction removed and a banlist. Apparently I missed a few extremely obscure ways to obtain Pokemon that low-levelled, too.

I still think Pika Cup is a better meta to run than Little Cup, however, since Little Cup's an illegal meta.