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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 20, 2010 13:39:06 GMT -8
It's a bit old now, claiming Jynx is on par with Gengar, and a lot of new level prediction makes different moves viable (See: WaterWizard's Chansey). So I'm going to go through the whole thing and add some stuff, do some editing, etc.
Are there certain topics, suggestions, etc, that I should add or edit? I want this to be the go-to reference for any questions regarding Pokemon competitive play, so hopefully I can cover everything someone may ask about something.
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Post by posthuman on Apr 2, 2010 0:33:56 GMT -8
I know I've said this already, but a history of the metagame and strategy of RBY would be interesting to read. I'd like to know how it has evolved into its current state.
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Post by GGFan on Apr 3, 2010 14:25:45 GMT -8
^A bit unrelated, but I've been thinking about constructing a comprehensive history of competitive RBY on GameFAQs.
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Post by t3h Icy on Apr 3, 2010 15:55:47 GMT -8
I'm mostly going to do what was considered "OU" at the time, player strategies etc. You'd be better at specific players, events and such though. Go for it and link us after.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 1, 2010 14:40:37 GMT -8
Wow, this topic is already 2 months old.
Anyway, I'm still working on it, but I'm going to turbo for the next while to get this finished.
Here's an example of the format I've been using:
*********
Vileplume
*********
HP 353
ATK 258
DEF 268
SPD 198
SPE 298
CHC 9.7%
Type - Grass/Poison
Weaknesses - BUG, Fire, Flying, Ice, Psychic
Neutrals - Ghost, Ground, Normal, Poison, Rock
Resistances - Electric, Fighting, GRASS, Water
Moves - Absorb, Acid, Bide, Body Slam, Cut, Double Team, Double-Edge,
Hyper Beam, Mega Drain, Mimic, Petal Dance, Poisonpowder, Rage, Reflect, Rest,
Sleep Powder, Solarbeam, Stun Spore, Substitute, Swords Dance, Take Down, Toxic
Vileplume has decent stats except for somewhat low Speed. Compared to Victreebel
and Venusaur, Vileplume is more well rounded Physically, but Vileplume is tied
or worse than Venusaur in all stats, except having 4 extra Defense. The main
drawback with Vileplume is the lack of Razor Leaf, but instead has Petal Dance.
With Petal Dance, the user continues to use it 2-3 turns in a row and then
becomes Confused. Since Vileplume can't attack really well, or at least not as
well as Victreebel, Vileplume is left as just another double powder Pokemon.
Recommended Movesets for Vileplume
1 – Standard - Sleep Powder, Stun Spore/Swords Dance, Mega Drain, Body Slam
Sleep and Stun. Afterwards, attack with either Mega Drain or a Normal move.
Petal Dance isn’t really recommended, as your Vileplume is basically finished
once you start using it. If you don't need Stun Spore, use Swords Dance.
Relative Strength
Petal Dance vs Alakazam - 74-63 (24%-20%)
Petal Dance vs Sandslash - 258-220 (73%-62%)
Petal Dance vs Starmie - 182-155 (56%-48%)
Petal Dance vs Tauros - 113-96 (32%-27%)
1x Swords Dance + Acid vs Exeggutor - 200-170 (51%-43%)
1x Swords Dance + Body Slam vs Chansey - 343-291 (49%-41%)
Relative Defense
Alakazam's Psychic - 286-243 (81%-69%)
Articuno's Blizzard - 359-305 (102%-86%)
Chansey's Ice Beam - 168-143 (48%-41%)
Tauros's Body Slam - 122-103 (35%-29%)
Tauros's Blizzard - 165-140 (47%-40%)
How to use Vileplume
Vileplume is really limited to Stun Spore and Sleep Powder. Use them as you need
to, but following that, Vileplume isn't as effective as other powder Pokemon.
Petal Dance forces you to use it and it's weaker then Razor Leaf. Vileplume
could use Swords Dance, but Venusaur and Victreebel can do it better, so while
Vileplume isn't horrible in battle, it's inferior to other Pokemon.
How to counter Vileplume
Use something that can take paralysis and if you don't have something sleeping,
use a Pokemon as sleep bait, or something that already has a status condition.
Once you've had something take Stun Spore, Vileplume can't do much more.
Alakazam and other Specialists may take moderate damage from Body Slam, but
you should be doing much more. Gengar and Exeggutor give Vileplume the most
trouble.
-------
I'll try to get this finished within the next 2 weeks.
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Post by posthuman on Jun 1, 2010 16:38:53 GMT -8
Nice. Are you only going to focus on UU?
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 1, 2010 16:54:34 GMT -8
wat
No, I'm mainly going to focus on OU.
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Zilch
Member
What's in the box?
Posts: 561
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Post by Zilch on Jun 2, 2010 9:04:05 GMT -8
Will you include some damage percentages against some fairly common tier opponents? For the Vileplume example, I might want to know just how much Mega Drain does against Omastar. Not a huge list or anything, but just a couple of entries.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 2, 2010 10:45:24 GMT -8
Well it's mainly for OU, but yeah, I can definitely add some UU damages.
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Post by posthuman on Jun 2, 2010 19:48:50 GMT -8
Whoops I meant OU. Yeah.
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Nerd
Member
Posts: 182 
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Post by Nerd on Jun 4, 2010 15:28:37 GMT -8
I actually haven't read your guide yet (I kinda skimmed through it once though), but one thing I noticed is you try to make every pokemon seem useful. Vileplume is completely worthless in OU and the only time someone would even dream of using one would be when the opponent has no gengar, no water types that you would use the grass moves against, no aerodactyl or sandslash, no pokemon with base speeds between 50 and 70 (this includes exeggutor, lapras, chansey and more) and you ARE using stun spore. You gave a bunch of numbers about petal dance but they aren't really important (acid is also kinda pointless), it would be better to have some mega drain numbers too. Even then, vileplume is a horrible choice and you should indicate that.
You could include a couple sections about playing with wrap, UU, tradebacks, etc.
Overall, it looks pretty good. I don't know how many people are going to see it though and with the metagame constantly changing hopefully it won't get out of date soon.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 4, 2010 15:37:49 GMT -8
Well I do shun Vileplume quite a bit. =P
Also many of the attacks are demonstrations of why you shouldn't use them, such as Hitmonchan's Fire Punch vs Exeggutor.
But yes, I'm taking Zilch's opinion in adding some damage for UUs, but I likely won't be adding a section for UU. I am adding the Tradebacks list though.
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Post by Crystal_ on Jun 5, 2010 13:56:17 GMT -8
Instead of using capital letter for the x4s you could write x2 and x4 (folowed by "weakness" / "resistance".
You may also use colors for say, types and stats.
Good guide!
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Post by WaterWizard on Jun 7, 2010 22:24:27 GMT -8
Might want to make it easier on the eyes by implementing some colors for types, stats, as Crystal said above. Looking forward to seeing revisions.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 7, 2010 22:27:55 GMT -8
Well GameFAQs is all text so I can't add colours, but I could just add another row for 4x weaknesses/resistances.
Would that look better?
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Post by Dexter on Jun 7, 2010 22:34:16 GMT -8
I'm fairly sure Vileplume's Crit Rate is a lot bit higher than 9.7%....Don't forget the immunities for Grounds/Gengar/Psychics/Normals, as well as a list of status they're immune to
also, this might be asking a bit much but it would be cool if you posted base stats instead of just max stats It would be useful for people training in-game to be able to calculate max stats themselves using their own DV's and a DV calculator. I guess they could find that easily somewhere else though, but isnt the point of this guide to have everything?
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 7, 2010 22:36:56 GMT -8
Vileplume's Speed is abyssmal; it's 9.7%.
Base Speed = 50
50/512 ~ 9.7%
And yes I have immunities as well.
But I was planning to add base stats somewhere. I think I'll just put a link to the other guide that has all the base stats. Maybe I'll make my own; not sure yet. Good ideas though.
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Post by Crystal_ on Jun 8, 2010 1:30:53 GMT -8
I would rather use x4 instead of double. That's only my opinion though.
And BTW I belive (I'm pretty sure I think) that the CH rate is a bit smaller because you have to do x255/256. I think that I remember Persian doing Slash without CH for example.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 15, 2010 14:20:01 GMT -8
Okay so I'm still not quite done, but I have finished the rough part. All that's left is a full (*sigh* -_-) read-through, revisions, etc, and I'll send it to GameFAQs.
I'm caught up in projects, trips and everything else, but I'm getting it done. =P
Hopefully it won't need another update for awhile unless someone comes up with something really neat.
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Post by posthuman on Jun 15, 2010 15:01:06 GMT -8
Cool. I'll be going through it after you send it.
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Post by WaterWizard on Jun 15, 2010 19:17:08 GMT -8
link it
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 15, 2010 19:18:34 GMT -8
It's not done yet.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 28, 2010 21:36:45 GMT -8
Still cracking at it. >_>
I added a lot of content, a couple Appendixes for Base stats and move information, and I made it a lot more visually pleasing.
I'm about a third done revising and then everything will be set to go. =)
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Post by WaterWizard on Jun 29, 2010 0:36:20 GMT -8
oh good, visual pleasure is important!
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Post by t3h Icy on Jul 5, 2010 10:58:23 GMT -8
Between Smash road trips, planning events, TASing, gaming, writing, hanging with people, and endless other things going on, I am still trying to get this done. Slowly.
Part of the reason it's taking much longer than I expected is that I've been trying to make it close to perfect in everything. Harrison also suggested some visual ideas, such as this below.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Table of Contents |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1) Intro |
| a) Intro |
| b) Version History |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2) How to get Mew |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 3) Experience, Stats, DVs and Other Various Formulas |
| a) Experience and Formulas |
| b) Stats, DVs and Formulas |
| c) The Damage Formula |
| d) The Critical Hit Formula |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 4) Terminology and Common Rules |
| a) Terminology |
| b) Common Rules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 5) Tricks and Techniques |
| a) Basics |
| b) Tricks and Techniques |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 6) Common Questions |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 7) Analyzing Types and Pokemon |
| a) Type Analysis |
| b) Pokemon Analysis |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 8) Battling |
| a) Selecting Your Pokemon |
| b) Battling |
| c) Team Examples |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 9) Pokemon Stadium |
| a) Intro |
| b) Battling Changes |
| c) Reconstructing Teams |
| d) Beyond Battling |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 10) Guide Questions |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 11) Appendixes |
| a) Base Stats |
| b) Attacks |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 12) Outro |
| a) Legal Stuff |
| b) Outro and Credits |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
(Mind you, those lines are supposed to be at the end).
Hopefully everyone else is having a great Summer too! Once we get closer to September, I'm sure more people will be active again. I'll definitely go back into full-time RBY once I've gotten everything done I want to do this Summer.
I'll also try to get this guide done when I can. Promise. =P
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Post by t3h Icy on Jul 7, 2010 23:42:03 GMT -8
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