Blastoise Discussion

[t3h Icy]

I've noticed something about Blastoise that is unlike other defensive, aquatic Pokemon: Counter. While Cloyster, Articuno and Kingler still have to fight through Normal moves, Blastoise can actually put on pressure to keep the opponent from using them.

Vs Tauros

Tauros's Body Slam - 110-93 (30%-26%)
Tauros's Earthquake - 86-73 (24%-21%)
Tauros's Hyper Beam - 192-163 (53%-45%)

Hydro Pump vs Tauros - 173-147 (49%-42%)
Surf vs Tauros - 137-117 (39%-33%)
Countering Body Slam - 220-186 (62%-53%)
Countering Hyper Beam - 384-326 (109%-92%)

So first off, while Tauros can 3HKO Blastoise and vice versa, but if you spook Tauros into using Earthquake, it's not guaranteed. In fact, if Tauros gets average damage for each, the total is about 359, which is 2 under Blastoise's HP.

Now, while Tauros can always get Critical Hits, that means more Counter damage (unless Earthquake is Critical). Assuming no Criticals though, Tauros has to use Earthquake and Body Slam in some order and then use Hyper Beam last, which, if it doesn't KO, is the end of Tauros by Counter. Of course though, Blastoise takes prediction skill, but it can work if you're smart. For what it's worth, if Tauros uses Earthquake twice and then Hyper Beam, it is nearly impossible to get a 3HKO without a Critcal (max 364 if you get max all three times).

Now while Counter causes pressure, Surf is your attacking move, doing over 33% per turn. If you land Counter against Body Slam, combined with Hydro Pump, you're very likely to get a 2HKO, so either or can work. Since you're likely going to Counter Hyper Beam, Surf works better overall.

Or alternatively, you can use Reflect, with or without Counter to add lasting power and give you a better chance at even KOing with Surf/Hydro Pump.

Now the problem is the opponent switching to Chansey, Starmie, Lapras or something of the like. Blastoise does have Body Slam to help, and even Chansey's Thunderbolt is very unlikely to get a 2HKO. It's a losing match-up but it's not hopeless.

This isn't anything earth-shattering and Blastoise still shit, but I thought I'd point out some facts with Blastoise. What do you think of the Surf/Counter idea against Tauros, and what about using Blastoise in general?

[WaterWizard]

lol this would never catch on. counter on such a high defense'd pokemon is not advised. maybe if he could 2 hit ko tauros. but he just can't. lapras/starmie/gyarados/slowbro are all better waters.

fun concept though. might work against kangy in BL...

worth mentioning is Charizard. he can use Counter, and is immune to EQ. just watch out for Bliz... But Snorlax doesn't have Bliz, so this could be very effective against him...

[t3h Icy]

Assuming standard Snorlax vs Counter Charizard:

Body Slam vs Charziard - 137-116 (38%-32%)

Countering Body Slam - 274-232 (52%-44%)
Flamethrower - 143-122 (27%-23%)
Fire Blast - 180-153 (34%-29%)

Countering Body Slam and then using Fire Blast twice is a guarantee 2HKO, but you have to consider accuracy. Swords Dance if Snorlax switches though is interesting.

[WaterWizard]

plus you have to hope Snorlax doesn't paralyze you (and he has two chances to do so...). pretty risky! and of course, Starmie can always come in and get burnt. then it's GG lol

[Crystal_]

I'd go with something like Surf, Ice Beam, Body Slam / Submission, EQ / Submission. You are going to use Counter when your opponent's Tauros switch out to something like Starmie, Chansey, Gengar, Eggy or Zam.