Reflect on Starmie?

[Underboss]

So, a couple weeks back, I tried using Dual Screen Starmie to whoop Icy... It didn't end well . Thunderbolt is just too important.

But I was thinking, what about using Reflect only on Starmie to counter Tauros and Snorlax? Would that work at all?

[t3h Icy]

Starmie in general already counters Tauros and usually Snorlax, and using Reflect just risks for Criticals. Though with it, you can get out with some extra HP in you. Thunderbolt is still an issue though.

[Crystal_]

I can't really imagine any physical attacker switching into Starmie... You will still beat Tauros more often than not without Reflect, although Reflect can work against Snorlax and explosionsers. But since it won't help against Chansey (against Alakazam or other Starmie neither), it isn't a good idea.

[GGFan]

I wouldn't really call Starmie a Tauros counter because Tauros can also para and has nearly the same crit rate. Also, if Starmie doesn't have Surf it will have a much more difficult time killing Tauros. Reflect is probably just as useful as Light Screen, as Chansey counters Starmie anyway and Alakazam's success against Starmie partially depends on critical hits.

[WaterWizard]

LS Starmie is nice. I wouldn't use Reflect Starmie.

[GGFan]

I've used it before; it has practicality.

[WaterWizard]

Reflect seems like it would really only be useful against Snorlax, who doesn't crit. But who would keep a physical sweeper out against a reflect Starmie? idk... seems like a free Chansey switch to me...

[Crystal_]

Reflect main usefulness is using it in a predicted SD or EXpl from Lax, Golem and friends. Apart from that it is really only useful in a completely physical late-game. But Starmie does not have 1.000 move slots to use it only for that.

[LucasBM]

I don't think it is worth for Starmie to lose a slot with Reflect. In fact, there are other options to counter physical attackers much better, in my opinion. One can counter Persian with Exeggutor, Snorlax and Tauros. Snorlax is hardly ever countered if well used. It is only afraid of physical moves, which Starmie doesn't have. Against Tauros, Starmie can still try her luck with some paralysis.

More, the only thing Starmie really can't deal with is Chansey. As you see, Reflecting against chansey is pointless.

Light Screen on Starmie might me nice, though. You might lose some coverage due to the lack of Thunderbolt, but there might be a way to deal with if. And more, Light Screen would boost all Special attackers of your team, meaning some of them could even try their lucks agaist an on-switch Chansey.

[Crystal_]

LS is to try a freeze war on Chansey. You will have about 10% chances of freezing it with IB, while TB Chansey has about 9'5-10 chances of CHing with TB. The problem is that you will do 10% with IB while it will do 25%, meaning that having to use Recover a lot more time you'll have less chances of succeding. And LS + IB + Recover limites you too much. If you use Psychic, Stars counter you no matter the LS, if you use TB you become pretty bad against physicals.

Reflect main use will be stop predicted booms (Lax, Egg, Golem idk). Otherwise is only usefulin a full physical scenario and even there not that much. Obv Reflect is too situational, and using a slot on Star with it, is losing too much.

[GGFan]

Reflect is also very useful against Tauros: it mitigates the possibility of Starmie losing from sheer luck.

[t3h Icy]

Light Screen Starmie can be gimmicky if you try for a freeze on Chansey. I used to lead that type of Starmie and when you take out Gengar AND freeze Chansey, it gives you a 6-4 lead, after eliminating two vital Pokemon.

However, it's not in your favor. The mistake people used to make was trying to freeze back or trying to kill Starmie without Thunder Wave. If Starmie is paralyzed and getting Tbolted, Chansey will almost certainly win.

Of course though, Light Screen Starmie can be used in other situations.

My opinion above is still the same about Reflect Starmie.

EDIT: I wonder how a set like (Psychic/Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam)/Light Screen/Reflect/Recover would fare.

[Crystal_]

EDIT: I wonder how a set like (Psychic/Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam)/Light Screen/Reflect/Recover would fare.

Stalled (due to swicthes between Zam/Chan/Star/even Egg\Hypno). Unless you use IB, so that you can at least hope to freeze something. Should be worse than a 1 screen Star, I suppose, at least more often than not.


And any Gengar will probably switch out I suppose. Anyway this involves using Psychic, and non-TB LS Stamie can not stay into TB Starmies (or is just very risky), especially if they also have TW, which is often there.