Electrode vs Jolteon

[t3h Icy]

I had a few people ask about this, so I'll make a topic.

First off, let's display the stats:

Electrode
HP 323
ATK 198
DEF 238
SPD 378
SPE 258
CH 27.3%

Jolteon
HP 333
ATK 228
DEF 218
SPD 358
SPE 318
CHC 25.3%

Jolteon has higher Attack and Special, and a tad more HP, while Electrode has extra Defense and even higher Speed. For starters, Electrode can take Physical attacks slightly better than Jolteon for example:

Golem's Earthquake vs Electrode - 342-291 (106%-90%)
Golem's Earthquake vs Jolteon - 373-317 (112%-95%)

Roughly, Electrode has 1.06 times better Physical defensiveness than Jolteon, which helps. The extra Speed gives about a 2% higher CH rate and Electrode outspeeds Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Mewtwo, rather than tying them. So Electrode has a few key benefits, stats-wise

Jolteon however has significantly higher Special, meaning he can take Special attacks better, and resists them better as well:

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - 426-362 (108%-92%)
Jolteon's Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - 522-445 (133%-113%)

Alakazam's Psychic vs Electrode - 164-140 (51%-43%)
Alakazam's Psychic vs Jolteon - 134-114 (40%-34%)

The differences are noticeable. Jolteon also has higher Attack, and although the two have different Physical attacks, the additional Attack means Jolteon can be more useful with them.

So judging so far, Jolteon seems to be the choice having stronger STAB attacks, and can take Special attacks better (and has higher HP where that's helpful such as Mimicking a healing move, Seismic Toss, etc). Electrode has slightly higher Defense, but the extra Speed is relatively insignificant. However, in specialized cases where the extra Speed is handy (such as Paralyzing Mewtwo), the 378 Speed shines.

So now regarding movesets, both often have Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt, and both may have Thunder. Electrode's main move is Explosion, and Light Screen is also a possiblity. Jolteon however learns a ton of useful side-moves such as Body Slam, Pin Missile, Sand-Attack, Double Kick and Agility (and of course Focus Energy for Stadium matches). Hyper Beam is also more of a possibility with Jolteon due to 40 higher Attack. This not only makes Jolteon more versatile, but less predictable, as the opponent will be unsure of the exact set you use. This also means Jolteon can handle counters better such as Special stallers (Chansey, Alakazam), Grass Pokemon (Exeggutor) and cause grief by using Sand-Attack and fixing Speed loss of Paralysis with Agility. Electrode only has one real extra move, but it happens to be very useful.

With Explosion, Electrode can take out low-Defense Pokemon better than Jolteon, of course at Electrode's expense, but the true threat, despite the 198 Attack is the 27.3% CH rate. With over a quarter of all of Electrode's attacks being Critical, Explosion can become deadly, even OHKOing Tauros often. The problem is it isn't reliable, and a non-CH Explosion can't even KO Alakazam. Even though 27.3% is very high for a chance to get a Critical Hit, that still means about three of every four Explosions will do pathetic damage. On top, Electrode isn't great before then, using weak Thunderbolts. Electrode also doesn't have any other moves to help, so Electrode becomes extremely linear and useless. The main thing with Electrode would be spreading Paralysis, which is better than Jolteon by having extra Speed, tougher Defense and having the threat of Explosion during any switches.

So who should you use? Between the two (this topic excludes Zapdos), Jolteon is the favorable choice, being more versatile, having significantly stronger attacks, and still maintaining the high Speed and Paralysis spreading abilities. Electrode should only be used in special cases where the extra Speed is desireable, or you want to use the combination of STAB Thunderbolt with Explosion in some way. You could use Electrode in situations where the extra Defense can mean an extra turn to attack, but since Jolteon is stronger in attacking, Electrode's extra turn only adds some extra damage, and only in the cases where it survives longer than Jolteon. Explosion could be used as the finishing move though, but that may be very predictable. For example, let's pretend Gyarados can OHKO Jolteon, but only 2HKO Electrode.

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - 426-362 (108%-92%)
Jolteon's Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - 522-445 (133%-113%)

This lets Electrode do 426+426 (852) damage vs Jolteon's 522. But, as the number of turns last, the extra damage decreases. 3HKO Jolteon and 4HKO Electrode, would mean 426+426+426+426 (1704) vs Jolteon's 522+522+522 (1566). In other words, Electrode's Defense only really helps for Pokemon that KO Jolteon within one or two hits, but not Electrode, further decreasing the number of Pokemon the extra Defense helps with. So these few situations, 20 extra Speed and Explosion (and Light Screen) are Electrode's only benefits over Jolteon.

To conclude, Jolteon is usually superior to Electrode.

[Crystal_]

haha. How do you do it? Mum, tell me a number: 101. Ok today I do... Electrode! Yup!
Awesome. I also like how you especulate. I have Electrode vs Gyarados matchups in all OU battles haha!

[t3h Icy]

This is why knowing your damages can make or break you. I'll give an example to explain my point.

Muk's Sludge vs Electrode - 108-92 (33%-28%)
Muk's Sludge vs Jolteon - 118-101 (35%-30%)

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Muk - 138-117 (33%-28%)
Jolteon's Thunderbolt vs Muk - 169-144 (41%-35%)

In this example, Jolteon will get to attack three times, while Electrode will get to attack four, meaning that while Jolteon does more damage, Electrode's extra Defense keeps him around longer to get another hit, thus doing more damage overall. This also means that Electrode gets an additional chance to get a Critical Hit.

There are also situations like this:

Tauros EQ vs Electrode - 214-182 (66%-56%)
Tauros EQ vs Jolteon - 233-198 (70%-59%)
Tauros Body Slam vs Electrode - 137-116 (42%-36%)
Tauros Body Slam vs Jolteon - 149-127 (45%-38%)

Where Jolteon's inferior Defense means Tauros can use Body Slam and then Earthquake without worry of not 2HKOing, unlike Electrode (so you get a chance at Paralysis).

But, as the number of turns increases, this benefit diminishes. 1v2, 2v3, 3v4, 4v5, and so on only gives Electrode a slightly better advantage and after long enough, it actually flips back to Jolteon (where Jolteon's extra damage makes up for the difference in attacking one turn less).

As I said, these situations are sparse, meaning Jolteon is still better overall, and when it comes to Special attacks, both to and from, Jolteon is superior, and by much more than Electrode is over Jolteon in taking Physical attacks.

Especially when things like this:

Articuno's Blizzard vs Jolteon - 168-143 (50%-43%)
Articuno's Blizzard vs Electrode - 206-176 (64%-54%)
Jolteon's Thunderbolt vs Articuno - 224-191 (58%-<50%)
Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Articuno - 183-156 (48%-41%)

...are much more common. Not to mention Electrics use Special moves more and in a mostly Specialized metagame, take a lot of Special hits. On top, Ground attacks are the main thing Electrode survives more than Jolteon such as this:

Golem's Earthquake vs Electrode - 342-291 (106%-90%)
Golem's Earthquake vs Jolteon - 373-317 (112%-95%)

...but Electrode surviving more often than Jolteon will only result in tickling Golem an extra turn. Again, Jolteon is usually the better choice.

[LucasBM]

Well, guys, as the only points of using Electrode seem to be the extra physical defenses and speed, I would like to discuss the extra defense in a way you still haven't done.

As the only physical type electrode resists is flying, i guess you would want to put Electrode when you predict a Flying-type attack (of course a free switch with no damage at alll would be better, but that is not the focus in my discussion).

As flying-type attacks seem to be uncommon, we are restricted to Zapdos, Dodrio and Fearow using Drill Peck and Aerodactyl using Sky Attack (this novelty thanks to the Aerodactyl discussion thread). Maybe we should also discuss some Fly-attack users.

I'm starting with Zapdos's Drill Peck:

Zapdos's Drill Peck vs Electrode - between 16% and 19%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (19.53% chance) - between 31% and 36%

As we see, switching Electrode in on Zapdos's Drill Peck is, generally, a safe switch.

As Electrode is faster, let's see how it would threaten Zapdos:

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Zapdos - between 25% and 30%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (27.34% chance) - between 49% and 57%

Electrode's Thunder vs Zapdos - between 32% and 37%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (19.14% chance, featuring it may miss) - between 61% and 72%
-> if it misses (30% chance) - no damage at all

Electrode's Explosion vs Zapdos - between 47% and 56%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (27.34% chance) - between 92% and 100%

As Electrode walls Zapdos almost completely, the only optiom seems to be Hyper Beam. but even if it get the critical hit, will do up to 89% damage, so Zapdos is more likelly to switch.

This is the moment when you take advantage to spread paralysis.

Now, checking against Dodrio's Drill Peck:

Dodrio's Drill Peck vs Electrode - between 18% and 21%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (19.53% chance) - between 35% and 41%

Generally, a good switch, unless it gets the critical hit.

Threatening Dodrio:

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Dodrio - between 76% and 89%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (27.34% chance) - 100% damage

Electrode's Thunder vs Dodrio - between 95% and 100%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (19.14% chance, featuring it may miss) - 100% damage
-> if it misses (30% chance) - no damage at all

Looking at the damage ranges, we can deduce that Dodrio will almost never stay in against Electrode. But let's see Dodrio's alternatives to attack anyway: Hyper Beam only OHKOs if it gets the CH, and Body Slam seems worthless at all.

But Jolteon is also faster then Dodrio and Zapdos, and has just a bit smaller defense than Electrode, together with a much bigger Special. So, Jolteon fills this role better than Electrode.

But the funny thing about Electrode is that it ruins Aerodactyl's Sky Attack strategy with the possibility of taking no damage at all. See:

Generally, Sky Attack Aerodactyl switches in against something that is forced to switch out, due to being unable to Damage Aero properly. Then it glows the 1st turn of Sky Attack, attacking right after - cause it is very fast.

But Electrode is faster, and can use Thunderbolt before getting Sky Attacked:

Electrode's Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - between 60% and 70%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (27.34% chance) - 100% damage

Electrode's Thunder vs Aerodactyl - between 75% and 88%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (19.14% chance, featuring it may miss) - 100% damage
-> if it misses (30% chance) - no damage at all

Suppose Electrode doesn't OHKO Aerodactyl, then it is Sky Attacked:

Aerodactyl's Sky Attack vs Electrode - between 30% and 35%
-> if it gets a Critical Hit (22.85% chance, featuring it may miss) - between 59% and 69%
-> if it misses (10% chance) - no damage at all

It is a heavy hit if it crits. But if you crit (and you have more chance, when using Thunderbolt) it is a OHKO.

As Jolteon and Aerodactyl are speed tied, Jolteon may not fill this role as well as Electrode.

So, I'd suggest a moveset like this:

Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Explosion/ Thunder
Screech/ Thunder/ Light Screen

Switch in safely, spread paralysis. When you feel you can do it, use Screech (for easying Explosion's work) or Light Screen (when you thing he is gonna put some special attacker to counter you). When you're useless, Explode and pray it crits. Thunder is there for a desperated try to KO something out of Thunderbolt's range.

EDIT: Guess Light Screen won't work, as CH's negate its effect.
And more, which special user would in fact switch in against Electrode? Maybe Alakazam, but it asks Explosion. Maybe Gengar, but it is really afraid of being paralyzed. May Chansey be worth of it?

[t3h Icy]

Good stuff, but as you demonstrate, Jolteon can do all the same. The only case is you have to take the 50% risk with a Speed tie in Jolteon vs Aerodactyl. Considering that Electrode and Aerodactyl appear on opposing teams roughly....never, Jolteon still shines. Not to mention Golem/Rhydon can do what you're suggesting and better since they wall out the other attacks too.

One other thing I'd like to mention is Light Screen is a bit silly on Electrode. Generally, Electrode is chosen for his Speed, so you can outspeed those that you rarely do otherwise, but with high Speed opponents, Light Screen loses a little bit of merit, but is otherwise still a very viable choice.