Magneton vs Raichu

[Phillie]

I'm making a BL team which has to counter an average OU team, and for the electrictype, I'm stuck: Raichu or Magneton? Raichu is BL and Magneton UU, so it should be quite obvious. However, I'm not getting the point of taking Raichu over Magneton.

Here are the stats
Magneton: 50 60 95 120 70
Raichu: 60 90 55 90 100

- Raichu has more HP, but the defenses of Magneton are way higher.
- Raichu has more attack, but it has no STAB attack to use, nor an Explosion. It's only used to Body Slam, but since Raichu already has Thunder Wave, its only useful to the Grounpokémon.
- Magneton has way higher special, so way higher attack.
- Raichu has higer speed and a higher Critical Hit rate. If you look at the OU pokémon, he only outspeeds Articuno and Jynx in comparison to what Magneton outspeeds.

So statswise, I would say Magneton isn't worse than Raichu (he's different, but not worse).

Then there is the other problem: the movepool. Raichu learns Surf and can ruin Golem or Rhydon. But if you have a team with other Rock/Ground counters, it isn't really neccesary. Raichu learns Submission as well, but that's not very useful.

On the other hand, Magneton learns Screech, which may force switches.



So is it foolish to use Magneton over Raichu? The only real reason I can think of, is because of the Critical Hit rate. However, I don't like the fact counting on luck in battles.

[t3h Icy]

I think you're overlooking a lot, and Raichu is most often considered the better choice.

Despite Magneton has higher Special, Raichu and Magneton KO many Pokemon in the same number of turns, such as Lapras, Tauros, etc. Of course for partially damaged Pokemon, there are many cases where the extra damage helps, but it's up to you to make that happen.

Next, Raichu's Body Slam has a lot of usefulness, and while Paralysis is nice, it is used more for its damage. Think of situations where you send Raichu out vs a Water Pokemon and you anticipate a switch. Sure Thunder Wave can Paralyze, but it doesn't work on Grounds and can't do any damage. Body Slam will always do some damage (except vs Ghosts), and may Paralyze too. If you just predict with Thunder Wave, there are times where you'll be wrong, but of course there will be times where Body Slam doesn't Paralyze. However, in the latter case, at least something was done (damage). Also, if your opponent is weary of this, they may be careful with their switches. Tauros switching into Raichu can be risky if Raichu uses Body Slam.

Also, Magneton doesn't have much of an answer for Electrics and Grasses, while Raichu can hit them for some decent damage (and for more than Surf since Electrics have low Defense). Body Slam is very useful.

Speed is helpful, but not as much compared to other pairings. Raichu does get a significantly higher CH rate though and then tightens the gap between their Special damages. I have a thread about it here. But for BL vs OU, Raichu's Speed doesn't help too much over Magneton, but higher is still better.

Stats-wise, Magneton is definitely at least on par with Raichu (I'd argue better), but the problem is movepools. Magneton can use Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt all the same, but gets walled on many more than Raichu does including Grass, Electrics, Special stallers (Chansey, Alakazam, etc) and somewhat Dragons. Screech is an option, but it's only 85% accurate, and you're at the opponent's mercy to stay put for the lowered Defense to be useful. Granted, it can be used to force switches, but the number of possible switches is too high (Exeggutor, Chansey, Alakazam, Jolteon...), and the opponent would only need two for dealing with Screech. However, you could read their switch and pressure them with a switch of your own, such as Screeching Alakazam, and when they switch to Chansey to negate it, you switch to Tauros. Only, if you read incorrectly, your Tauros is put at risk.

Raichu's Submission is decent for specfic counters (mostly just Chansey), but it's not reliable and I don't recommend it. It's an option though.

Overall, I strongly believe Raichu will serve you better than Magneton. If you believe otherwise, you can test both out and see what happens, since most of the facts you listed on just "on paper". It's much more different and dynamic.

[Phillie]

Netbattle doesn't run on my computer (it always gives an error message that some files are missing, I downloaded the thing more then once by now), so testing for myself won't work

Your post is quite clear by the way: at the offensive side, Raichu is better then Magneton is. But how about the defensive side? I think Magneton will last longer and will have more opportunities to switch in then Raichu does, or is the difference in HP to high to say that?

The situation is that I want something to take special hits quite well, and typwise, electric would be awesome, since all of the other high special (or mediocre special and high HP) pokémon in BL and UU have a weakness to an special attack (excluding Hypno).

Or is that just foolish to try since the low HP both have anyway?

[WaterWizard]

If you want a BL who can switch in on special attacks, Hypno is definitely the best choice. High HP, high special, no weaknesses, and a resistance to the most common STAB in OU.

Cloyster can wall a Chansey without Thunderbolt, can spook Alakazam with the Explosion factor, and also does a good job against Snorlax/Tauros.

Magneton's HP is just too poor. His high special and typing can't carry him due to poor stat distribution and a deplorable movepool. If you use Mimic vs most Chanseys, you're sure to get either Softboiled or Ice Beam, and both could help you stall Chansey out...

Try Hypno.

You can get the missing files for NBS. Battling is the best way to learn!

[Consumptus]

I think Raichu would be the better choice.
As Icy said, the higher special on Magneton is a bit useless in terms of damage, and therefore better used as special def. Hypno does that job better, and quite frankly you don't want to be on the defense too much as a BL team vs an OU team.
I also think Body Slam helps a lot. Alakazam and Chansey can't keep taking physical hits while they can just sit there and hit you vs Magneton.

[posthuman]

Magneton's cool, but Raichu's better for reasons already stated.

[Zilch]

Magneton's pretty cool in NU where it mainly has to deal with the threats of Vileplume, Parasect, and Onix (lol), and where that hard-hitting Thunderbolt can fry some of the not fully evolved Pokemon that are running around. It can also spell doom for Fearow and Aerodactyl.

As for BL (Raichu's tier), stick with the rat if only for versatility alone. Raichu's movepool is far above Magneton's and the lower special isn't terribly detrimental, and Raichu has a higher critical rate anyway which can prove valuable in certain scenarios. Stick with the rat.

[Phillie]

Ok, that's clear