How to Muk people up!

[t3h Icy]

Muk is a really interesting Pokemon. He has a massive 308 Attack, giving him the game's third strongest attack (Explosion, under Golem's and Snorlax's), and gets Sludge. He also has quite a few utility moves like Acid Armor, Screech, Disable, etc.

So how do you use Muk in OU?

First off, Gengar needs to be taken out. Gengar is immune to Muk's deadly Explosion and Sludge is 4x resisted, so you have to go with Fire Blast. This does 20% max.

From there, the next big threat is Golem and Rhydon. While Mega Drain can help, you get 2HKO'd, and you have to 3HKO with them. But here's a neat little trick:

Mega Drain vs Golem - 155-132 (43%-36%)
Golem's Earthquake - 329-280 (80%-68%)
Golem's Earthquake vs Acid Armor - 167-142 (40%-34%)

You use Acid Armor, take about 40%, then heal 19%. Repeat twice more and you should finish with about 40% HP left. If you're at 40% or less, you're in death range, but you don't need to use an extra Acid Armor, since Mega Drain will keep you away from there. Rhydon can be done the same way, but you'll be finishing with less HP.

So what can Muk do once his counters are gone? Well, he works like a mini Snorlax, except more one-dimensional. They have the same Special, nearly the same Attack and Defense, but Muk has significantly less HP, but has some Speed. The Speed helps for Rocks (though Surfing Snorlax is better). So Muk becomes exactly that; a mini-Snorlax.

The thing is, it's really hard to capitalize since Sludge has low base power, and while Muk can survive even Mewtwo's Psychic, he won't be surviving another. Muk is a nice choice for finishing off Exeggutor though: Sludge vs Exeggutor - 194-165 (49%-42%), but you're better off if he's Paralyzed.

So Muk's role is pretty much the suicide mission with Explosion. His Explosion has a 12/13 chance to OHKO Chansey, and do serious damage to many other Pokemon. It does 75%-64% against Reflect Alakazam, and does up to 87% vs Tauros. Muk's Defense is also high enough where Tauros can't 2HKO (max 410 with a CH).

Muk has a 1243/1521 chance to 2HKO Tauros with Sludge and Explosion (~82%). Funny enough, if Sludge Poisons, the Poison will be just enough to guarantee a 2HKO. So for Tauros to win, Tauros needs one of the two EQs to CH, or take low enough damage.

Tauros has a 38.4% chance to CH once across two turns, and has an 81.4% chance not to be CH'd by either Sludge or Explosion, and a 60% chance not to be Poisoned.

If you count a tie as winning, this gives Muk a 56.1% chance of beating Tauros. And if not, a good chunk what's left is Tauros surviving Explosion, meaning you can follow-up with the next Pokemon.

I'd suggest the set of Explosion, Sludge, Mega Drain and Acid Armor, though Screech may also be desirable for forcing switches around. Sludge is more of a finisher than anything, and you want to use Explosion and take out something when you can. The last two moves are almost entirely for Rocks. Body Slam is also an option, but I don't really recommend Fire Blast or Thunderbolt.

One other thing is Weezing competes with Muk, but since Weezing loses HP and Attack for the other three stats, Weezing is more mixed, but lacking in the main role. Weezing's Explosion only has a 12/39 chance to OHKO Chansey.

But overall, Muk works like a mini Snorlax, and unless you want to specifically hit Exeggutor harder, I would never use Muk unless you're using both. But, Muk has a lot of power and if you land Explosion, it should be a KO, or at least enough for something to follow-up on. Snorlax is Snorlax, and Golem has too many weaknesses, so the next choice for deadly Explosions is Muk. Cloyster and Exeggutor (and Graveler) are all the next strongest, but they can't OHKO Chansey as often. They have a lot more alternative uses though, but for pure damage, Muk is the way to go.

What do you think of Muk? Do you think he can be useful in OU, or are there too many ways to abuse his one-dimensionalism?

[Zilch]

*recovers from terrible pun*

In my opinion, and this goes for all NUs who want to play with the big boys, if they can kill one thing and weaken another, then they're a success. With Muk, I can see him taking something out with Explosion, and possibly paralyzing/burning something else. Could be useful I suppose, but always beware of Alakazam using Reflect on turn 1.

Also, call me crazy, but I think Poison would be an okay status effect against Chansey. She can't try and PP stall with paralysis, and the constant (though small) HP loss could cause some issues if she tries to tank. Situational, like everything else.

[jorgen]

I know the point was to highlight an "underrated" or "situationally awesome" pokemon, but Muk just isn't worth it. All those damage calcs and ultra-specific 1-on-1 situations are nice and all, but this isn't boxing, it's pokemon. Those calcs don't really illuminate Muk's big-picture potential (which isn't that great).

His strong explosion is nice, but he doesn't really have a reliable way to force the issue: Gengar walls it utterly, and while it can beat rocks, it doesn't exactly have an easy time with them, and could certainly falter if it's taken damage beforehand.

Speaking of "damage beforehand," getting him in can be tough. It's true, he's kinda similar to Snorlax, except notably weaker. And he takes big damage from every Psychic and Earthquake out there. His only safe switch-ins are... Chansey. And sleeping things. Which pretty much anything can switch into. And without a decent STAB or attacking movepool outside of Explosion, he doesn't hit nearly as hard as Snorlax once he does get in. So, in retrospect, he's not really similar to Snorlax at all outside of numerical stat distributions, since he can't hit many things or take many hits on the switch.

Also, poison is the worst status in RBY. And sludge can nail lots of things with it. That's one of the big turn-offs for me, since I'm not too keen on dealing with the possibility of a poisoned member of Tauros' or Zapdos' ilk.

I think Zilch's assessment of Muk in OU was pretty accurate: if he manages to explode on something and kill it, he's been massively successful and deserves a cookie. But it's dishearteningly likely that he won't get that far, and to tout him like this gives Muk way more credit than he deserves.

[t3h Icy]

They're not really specific at all, they're fresh 1v1s. Ideally you would be using Muk to explode on something with high health, and Sludge is strong enough to finish off quite a few Pokemon (assuming Paralysis/Sleep). Gengar is definitely the key problem, but having Exeggutor to help cover that can balance things out a bit.

Getting him isn't that difficult at all since he can take a hit by virtually everything. If you can get 2HKO'd, then yeah, you don't want to jump in, but if you switch to him after something of yours faints or if you predict a switch, Muk can create a lot of pressure if you have your opponent's team unable to take Explosion well.

Vs Rocks, Muk does win almost all the time (only a CH Earthquake will take out Muk), but you do lose a lot of HP. The match-up is based on fresh 1v1, so after Muk is done beating a Rock, you could save him for later for something Paralyzed. If they go to Tauros after you beat Golem/Rhydon, well, you still went one for one. And Golem can explode to also make it one for one, but you can abuse the opponent's Explosions too.

Sludge is mostly a finisher if something tries to jump in for Explosion, and I called Muk a mini Snorlax in the sense of not dying to anything in one hit and retaliating with lethal damage from suiciding.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting Muk is OU or some brand new potential or anything, I'm just showing some of the ways you can use inferior Pokemon in an OU environment effectively. Muk also requires the player to be on the upperhand with prediction over the course of a match to be successful (like Aerodactyl). In other words, I would never use Muk in a tournament match or anything. It's just a fun idea for other people to try.

[Crystal_]

I don't see the point in trying to show that every poke is viable for OU. Sure it might be good, but there will always be a lot of stuff better. It just can't enter the field unless it comes after something dies or into a predicted switch, in which case you are better at sending another sweeper like Snorlax. The only way Muk is doing something is exploding.

I'm not saying you will never win a match if you are using Muk, but rather, if you have used another pokemon instead, you wouldve won 99% of these battles, and a lot more you couldn't win with Muk.

[GGFan]

I wouldn't really call Muk a "mini-Snorlax" just because he can 2HKO things with Sludge + Explosion. In that case, anything not named Onix is a "mini-Snorlax." Giving Muk that honor also belies how ineffectual he is in OU compared to other Pokemon. But I've used Muk and Weezing in OU a few times, and I actually like Weezing more, if only for the ability to 2HKO Starmie with Thunder (Muk's Thunder isn't powerful enough). He can also survive a crit EQ from Snorlax and Tauros, whereas Muk can't.

[t3h Icy]

Muk's a mini-Snorlax because he can both do major damage and explode, and he's very bulky.

Also, Muk can survive Tauros's CH Earthquake, and often survive Snorlax's too. Weezing can survive both all the time, sure, but Weezing does a lot less damage, but more Specially-equipped. I think the Thunder idea is silly though since it's unlikely to be hitting both, and Starmie could just spam Recover until Thunder misses, which is much more likely than a CH or Paralyzing Thunder.

[GGFan]

It's really extreme to even compare Muk and Snorlax. Muk doesn't have Snorlax's bulk, diversity, and threatening presence. On the other hand, Cloyster deals much more damage and is much better defensively, but he isn't what anybody would consider a "mini-Snorlax" either (at least, I've never seen anybody refer to it as one). Muk's only caveat is that he can explode. Snorlax, however, isn't one-dimensional.

Muk fails as a viable Pokemon in OU because he's indubitably outclassed as an exploder (Golem, Snorlax, and Cloyster are better), which is his only significant trait. Let's face it, Sludge is a shitty signature move. Once the novelty of hitting Exeggutor for, like, 47% takes place, you should just move on and try another gimmick. Just the fact that Cloyster is infinitely better should be reason enough, honestly.

As for Thunder on Weezing, the 2HKO was just to point out that it's a relatively strong attack. The accuracy problem isn't enough of a deterrent considering that you're gambling by using Weezing anyway. 170 damage on average is quite high; it can kill off a Starmie that's at roughly half-health, which is always something to keep in mind. Golem switch-ins can be somewhat mitigated by Fire Blast.

Note: I thought Muk only had 198 defense (mixed up stats).

[t3h Icy]

Just for clarity, this thread (and the others) is not saying that Muk is a viable OU Pokemon, only how to use Muk in OU.