|
|
Post by LucasBM on Jul 11, 2011 12:48:28 GMT -8
Can explosion teams ACTUALLY work?
I mean, you need to be cautious about Gengar, Golem, Rhydon and have an other way to deal with them. Also, you've got to battle against the opponent's pokémon until you get a numerical advantage over him and, being sure all of his remaining pokémon can be killed through explosion/selfdestruct, you start your work.
I'm not sure my ideas are clear in this post, but, anyway, develop your ideas on explosion-based teams.
|
|
|
|
Post by mughin on Jul 11, 2011 14:08:00 GMT -8
Well, in my opinion they're mostly fun teams, they can be competitive. But i believe that the reason or the object in them, is to always have the explosion threat putting pressure on your opponent, kinda like the reason Golem is usually better than Rhydon.
|
|
|
|
Post by muhpim on Jul 11, 2011 14:09:14 GMT -8
Gengar - Hypnosis, Explosion, Thunderbolt, Megadrain/Psychic
Exeggutor - Sleep Powder, Explosion, Psychic, Double Edge/Stun Spore
Starmie - Thunderbolt, Blizzard, Thunder Wave, Recover
Snorlax - Body Slam, Selfdestruct, Surf, Earthquake
Golem - Earthquake, Rock Slide, Explosion, Substitute/Body Slam
Tauros - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Blizzard
That can work really.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 11, 2011 14:18:56 GMT -8
Gengar - Hypnosis, Explosion, Thunderbolt, Megadrain/Psychic Exeggutor - Sleep Powder, Explosion, Psychic, Double Edge/Stun Spore Starmie - Thunderbolt, Blizzard, Thunder Wave, Recover Snorlax - Body Slam, Selfdestruct, Surf, Earthquake Golem - Earthquake, Rock Slide, Explosion, Substitute/Body Slam Tauros - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Blizzard That can work really. Swap the Starmie for Zam(T-wave, Psychic, Recover, Stoss/Reflect). Or at the very least give starmie Psychic. And possibly Surf/Hydro Pump. And Night Shade on the Gar is pretty good too. Otherwise, that's the team I would use for maximum boom. In my opinion, there are two steps to using an Explosion-team: 1) Get an early-game advantage. 2) Blow stuff up. (Be careful what you blow up on, of course.) If you're at a disadvantage, a 1 for 1 trade won't usually help, unless it's something specifically advantegous, which it usually won't be. The early-game advantage really counts. |
|
|
|
Post by jorgen on Jul 11, 2011 16:44:49 GMT -8
Gengar - Hypnosis, Explosion, Thunderbolt, Megadrain/Psychic Exeggutor - Sleep Powder, Explosion, Psychic, Double Edge/Stun Spore Starmie - Thunderbolt, Blizzard, Thunder Wave, Recover Snorlax - Body Slam, Selfdestruct, Surf, Earthquake Golem - Earthquake, Rock Slide, Explosion, Substitute/Body Slam Tauros - Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Blizzard That can work really. I fail to see the difference between this "explosion" team and what one might consider a "regular" team. Unless that's the point. Anyway, Explosions are best used to get an advantage to begin with, not just to close out a game that's 5 v. 4 or whatever. Every turn you wait to boom makes it more and more predictable, though the maximum potential benefits do generally increase with time (more residual damage to make killing easier, getting the most non-explosion utility out of your mon, etc.) Super-early boom probably isn't killing and might not be worth the sac, but super-late is predictable and will almost never work. |
|
|
|
Post by Consumptus on Jul 11, 2011 20:01:55 GMT -8
Explosion teams can work. Mine involves Cloyster, and Zapdos to finish.
The trick of course, is to blow up enough of your opponents to have gaps in their team. In my experience playing with my Explosion team, it only works once per set... at best. Playing vs WaterWizard and Zilch, they instantly caught on after I revealed my team. And then it gets down to skill level.
Explosion is very much like in GSC, where it dumbs down the game a little. It's a little harder due to the omnipresent ReflectZam or Starmie (who outspeeds and recovers everything off), but it definitely still works.
|
|
|
|
Post by t3h Icy on Jul 12, 2011 9:32:06 GMT -8
Basically what Consumptus said, spamming Explosion and Self-Destruct has to leave holes in your opponent's team and have the right Pokemon at the end to finish them off, say taking out Physical Pokemon and then having superior stall Pokemon over theirs, or taking out Chansey and Alakazam and then safely using Tauros. It depends a lot on what you explode and what you leave left.
When choosing your exploders, make sure each of them can lure what you want to take out. If you're want to take out Chansey, Snorlax may scare her off anyway, and if you want to beat Alakazam, Gengar is somewhat risky.
Also, for dealing with Rocks and Gengar, you can use Exeggutor, Cloyster and Starmies to cover them easily, but you'll have to do some switching around and make sure things work in your favor.
Explosion teams are fun and can be a problem for Rock-less, and Ghost-less teams, but if the opponent picks up on what you're doing and arranges the battle so their remaining Pokemon take out yours, you may be in trouble.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 12, 2011 13:07:21 GMT -8
If you want to do good using an Explosion team, one of the best things you can do is learn how to properly use Gengar. This seems to be difficult for a lot of people, but a properly used Gengar is truly an amazing thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by mughin on Jul 12, 2011 15:06:48 GMT -8
Would it be possible to make a regular team (with stallers, physical sweepers and everything) and the added pressure of explosion?
I mean on all 6 pokemons, i tried making this but the only thing i got was an uber team, using mewtwo and mew as special stallers with self-ko moves.
If this is possible, it would be an awesome team, at least in my opinion.
|
|
Zilch
Member
What's in the box?
Posts: 561
|
Post by Zilch on Jul 12, 2011 15:18:03 GMT -8
Could you imagine a team where 5 Pokemon exploded? It would probably look something like this: Gengar, Exeggutor, Golem, Snorlax, Cloyster, Tauros. Seems like it could be balanced, but do note that your only Alakazam sponge is Exeggutor, and if he's carrying Reflect, then you're going to have problems. Consider replacing Tauros with another Psychic type such as Starmie, but even then I can see it having problems.
4 exploders is certainly viable, though. You just need to play around with it enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by Consumptus on Jul 12, 2011 16:51:59 GMT -8
My team is actually: Gengar, Eggy, Snorlax, Cloyster, Golem, Zapdos.
I switched out Tauros for Golem for the added firepower and normal resist. You really have to either sleep Zam or blow up on it before it can Reflect. I also considered leading Eggy with D-edge, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, Explosion. D-edge a Zam lead, and if they Reflect turn 2, sleep it. If it has Stoss, you can para it and it's disabled.
Funnily, Jolteon gives the team the most trouble. That said, the team doesn't really give Jolteon a chance to switch in except after an Explosion. Other than that, Reflect Zapdos should finish off everything.
Edit: Now that I think of it again, Perhaps Agility would be best over Reflect on Zapdos.
|
|
Zilch
Member
What's in the box?
Posts: 561
|
Post by Zilch on Jul 12, 2011 18:01:24 GMT -8
Another cute thing you can try is Rest Exeggutor. When they think you'll explode, they'll send out their weak paralayzed or slept Pokemon, and then bam, you rest and become healthy. Granted, this strategy only works once, but it can certainly cause issues if your opponent is not expecting it!
|
|
|
|
Post by t3h Icy on Jul 12, 2011 18:14:15 GMT -8
You could also do that with Snorlax, either by Amnesia and/or Rest. Amnesia would give it a way, or you can trick them twice by going with something like Amnesia, Ice Beam, Body Slam, Self-Destruct.
But don't be expecting to make it work more than once.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 14, 2011 15:03:43 GMT -8
Electrode, Gengar, Eggy, Lax, Golem, Cloyster.
Nerd could do it.
|
|
Nerd
Member
Posts: 182 
|
Post by Nerd on Jul 14, 2011 17:00:56 GMT -8
Thanks... but I think you're looking at this all wrong. Explosion is a really useful tool, but don't confuse it with the GSC version. You can take out certain walls that would otherwise cause you major problems and you can often weaken the defending pokemon enough to be 'revenge killed' (is it still revenge if you killed yourself?), especially when explosion is used in conjunction with paralysis, but it is rarely a 1-1 trade. A full health opponent usually survives and in some cases can recover off the damage or the opponent could send out something (a rock, defensive pokemon, or a severely weakened pokemon) to take the blast. Of course, you could anticipate these switches and use them to your advantage, but if you are so much better than your opponent that you can do this flawlessly it doesn't really matter what you use.
Most teams have 1-3 exploders and teams with 4-5 are still viable, but a 6-exploder team is unnecessary and ineffective. You COULD do it just for the sake of having an 'explosion team', but you'll be better off without the electrode. Even if you are basing your team around explosion, you should have a revenge killer to send out after you explode.
On a side note, although it is extremely overpowered I wouldn't recommend running explosion on all your pokemon in GSC, either.
|
|
Zilch
Member
What's in the box?
Posts: 561
|
Post by Zilch on Jul 14, 2011 18:14:05 GMT -8
Want to surprise and amaze your opponent?
Selfdestruct Chansey.
|
|
|
|
Post by jorgen on Jul 14, 2011 18:47:27 GMT -8
Made even more surprising and amazing by the fact that it doesn't learn it.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 14, 2011 19:01:49 GMT -8
Thanks... but I think you're looking at this all wrong. Explosion is a really useful tool, but don't confuse it with the GSC version. You can take out certain walls that would otherwise cause you major problems and you can often weaken the defending pokemon enough to be 'revenge killed' (is it still revenge if you killed yourself?), especially when explosion is used in conjunction with paralysis, but it is rarely a 1-1 trade. A full health opponent usually survives and in some cases can recover off the damage or the opponent could send out something (a rock, defensive pokemon, or a severely weakened pokemon) to take the blast. Of course, you could anticipate these switches and use them to your advantage, but if you are so much better than your opponent that you can do this flawlessly it doesn't really matter what you use. Most teams have 1-3 exploders and teams with 4-5 are still viable, but a 6-exploder team is unnecessary and ineffective. You COULD do it just for the sake of having an 'explosion team', but you'll be better off without the electrode. Even if you are basing your team around explosion, you should have a revenge killer to send out after you explode. You're absolutely right. The point would be doing it just for fun. Like playing with BL pokemon against OU teams. :-) |
|
|
|
Post by brookman on Jul 15, 2011 9:24:00 GMT -8
playing BL against OU is definitely not fun . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 15, 2011 19:26:14 GMT -8
playing BL against OU is definitely not fun . . . You aren't Nerd. ;D I'm sure there are other people like him, or maybe even better(old legends that aren't active in RBY any more), but he's the only person I've seen so far with the ability to take BL/UU pokemon, even entire teams of them, and win OU battles like it's no big deal. |
|
borat
Member
ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
|
Post by borat on Jul 16, 2011 0:20:08 GMT -8
Pretty sure this offense/balanced/explosion archetype is every bit like its GSC counterpart. I fail to see the differences that distinguishes it into three distinct archetypes.
If you use 6, that's your choice, you're handicapping yourself. If you're using 0, that's your choice, you're handicapping yourself. Can someone fill me in as to how anything in-between is any different from your run of the mill RBY team? Gengar/Golem, Egg, Snorlax, and misc ensures you're going to end up with at least one, two, or even three on any jolly old "boggy" team. Throw in a Tauros, Chansey, and Lapras/Starmie/Zam and you're good to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 16, 2011 7:12:11 GMT -8
You could run 0 without a super handicap.
1) Zam
2) Rest Eggy
3) Chansey
4) Tauros
5) Zapdos
6) AmensiaLax
Jynx, Rhydon, Starmie, Slowbro, and Lapras are other options, to name the best of them.
Also, Zam > Starmie >>> Lapras.
|
|
Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
|
Post by Isa on Jul 16, 2011 8:19:31 GMT -8
I trained Danny/Muttbunch in prediction with a team of 6 boomers. Boomers Gonna Boom.
Eggy (MDrain)
Gengar (NShade)
Snorlax (Standard)
Golem (Standard)
Cloyster (Can't remember, still on vacation)
Can't remember the last one either - might be Muk.
Prediction skills are of course required to handle this team, both when facing it and when playing it. Key when I play with it is to avoid booming as long as possible with each individual pokemon (except possibly Muk), and predict when your opponent will switch and what move he'll use. Managing your switches is really important - this means that you MUST avoid easy chip damage with someone like Gengar and instead instantly switch at the same time as your opponent, in order to deal even more damage the next turn. Also, Eggy is really important, due to threatening Golem/Rhydon with MDrain and Gengar with Psychic - therefore you want to avoid Booming with Eggy even longer than with the others.
^--Unstructured stuff. Will clarify when I get home.
I also should switch NShade for Psychic/MDrain. (It's ran along with TBolt)
|
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jul 20, 2011 11:11:56 GMT -8
Garrin keeps hinting that his RBW matches will all be short... I'm thinking it has to do with this!  |
|
Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
|
Post by Isa on Jul 20, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -8
Lol WW. It's worth a shot.
|
|
|
|
Post by garrinred on Jul 20, 2011 18:26:21 GMT -8
Garrin keeps hinting that his RBW matches will all be short... I'm thinking it has to do with this! Huh. Great idea!!! That's not what I was thinking at all, but it is now. You ever seen a Crit Explosion punch through a full-HP Reflect Slowbro? There's nothing quite like it. |
|
