Hitmonlee Discussion
Jul 18, 2011 18:03:21 GMT -8
Post by t3h Icy on Jul 18, 2011 18:03:21 GMT -8
At some point, most people will get frustrated fighting the Normal Pokemon, especially Chansey, Tauros and Snorlax and turn to actual Fighting Pokemon. After being disappointed in Machamp's near-useless Submission, many may think of a way to get Hitmonlee to work.
Hi Jump Kick has slightly higher base power than Submission, 10% more accuracy and has no recoil. Hitmonlee also has Double Kick as a Fighting finisher if desired and Meditate to boost Attack. Unfortunately, Hitmonlee doesn't have Hyper Beam, so he's stuck with either Mega Kick, Double-Edge or Body Slam for Normal moves.
Hitmonlee's Hi Jump Kick is very slightly stronger than Machamp's Submission:
Submission vs Chansey - 674-573 (96%-82%)
Submission vs Snorlax - 322-274 (62%-52%)
Submission vs Tauros - 256-218 (73%-62%)
Hi Jump Kick vs Chansey - 676-575 (96%-82%)
Hi Jump Kick vs Snorlax - 323-275 (62%-53%)
Hi Jump Kick vs Tauros - 257-219 (73%-62%)
1x Meditate + Hi Jump Kick vs Chansey - 1011-860 (144%-122%)
1x Meditate + Hi Jump Kick vs Snorlax - 482-410 (92%-78%)
1x Meditate + Hi Jump Kick vs Tauros - 383-325 (108%-92%) (20/39 chance to OHKO (~51%))
Unfortunately, Hitmonlee cannot OHKO Chansey normally, but any nick beforehand should put her in death range. Meditated Hi Jump Kick also isn't enough to OHKO Snorlax and is a bit risky against Tauros. Still, Hitmonlee will win those match-ups (except Tauros most of the time).
Now the main problem with Hitmonlee is that as soon as he comes out, Psychics will come out running and Normals should be scared. But, since Alakazam, Starmie and Exeggutor (and Zapdos and Gengar) all have different match-ups, it's a bit odd to pressure an opponent with Hitmonlee. He also has abysmal stats and can't take a hit since he's 2HKO'd by every major attack except Chansey's Ice Beam, and OHKO'd by Psychic users. This ultimately renders Meditate useless. Even though it could have big gains, it really just eats a move slot that you could use for something else. Meditate would only really work with luck of FPs, vs Chansey (but that's one of the main Pokemon that will run) or on something Sleeping.
But there are a few things you can do with Hitmonlee. First off, let's look at the damages Hitmonlee takes from many Pokemon:
Snorlax's Body Slam - 166-142 (55%-47%) (1102/1521 chance to 2HKO (72%))
Snorlax's Hyper Beam - 297-253 (98%-83%)
Tauros's Body Slam - 159-135 (52%-45%) (195/1521 chance to 2HKO (12.8%))
Tauros's Hyper Beam - 279-237 (92%-78%)
With CHs, Tauros's Body Slam has a 10/39 chance to OHKO and Snorlax has a 28/39 chance to OHKO, but his CHs are rare anyway. This is actually somewhat survivable for Hitmonlee. Now, since Hi Jump Kick can't OHKO either and his CH chance is only about 17%, why not use something else before Hi Jump Kick?
First off, if Hi Jump Kick's accuracy is a bit risky in your opinion (90%), you can sacrifice some power for 5% more accuracy using Jump Kick.
Jump Kick vs Chansey - 558-474 (79%-67%)
Jump Kick vs Snorlax - 267-227 (51%-43%) (76/1521 to 2HKO (5%))
Jump Kick vs Tauros - 213-181 (60%-51%)
With Jump Kick, you lose the ability to 2HKO Snorlax (realistically), but the 5% accuracy boost is very helpful for Tauros and Chansey. Across two turns, the chance for Hi Jump Kick to hit twice is 81%, while Jump Kick hitting twice is 90.25%, which is higher than Hi Jump Kick even hitting once. You would still want Hi Jump Kick for Snorlax, but there's no reason you can't have both.
And we can take it further. Double Kick sacrifices even more power, but has 100% accuracy.
Double Kick vs Chansey - 479-407 (68%-58%)
Double Kick vs Snorlax - 230-195 (44%-37%)
Double Kick vs Tauros - 183-156 (52%-44%) (198/1521 to 2HKO (13%))
Hitmonlee can still 2HKO Chansey, but Tauros becomes unrealistic now too. The chance for Double Kick to hit Chansey twice though is 100%, vs Hi Jump Kick's 81%. But who says we can't combine them? Hi Jump Kick + Double Kick will 2HKO Chansey and Tauros and has a 427/1521 chance against Snorlax. So for Snorlax, using Jump Kick + Hi Jump Kick is the most likely to work (1334/1521 chance (88%)).
But there's also Rolling Kick. Rolling Kick does the same damage as Double Kick, but is 85% accurate. The benefit is that 30% of hits on Snorlax and Chansey will be a Flinch. While you could use Body Slam for Chansey (it can't 2HKO with Hi Jump Kick vs Tauros or Snorlax), Flinch's effect is instant, whereas Paralysis will slow down Chansey, but you'll still take a hit (25% after the already 30% to Paraslam). On top, Rolling Kick + Hi Jump Kick has a 967/1521 (63%) chance to 2HKO Chansey if she uses Softboiled (possible after using Thunder Wave). However, with accuracy, chances of getting the KOs and the less than likely chance to actually Flinch, Rolling Kick really isn't worth it, especially for a horrible Pokemon that probably shouldn't be taking risks like that.
So for the Fighting kicks, Hitmonlee should use Double Kick twice on Chansey (100% to 2HKO, and superb if Chansey Counters doing lesser damage, and only Countering one of the kicks, Jump Kick x2 vs Tauros (most likely chance, but Hi Jump Kick + Double Kick is only 0.25% less accurate to hit both, and you have a choice between getting a guaranteed hit and going for max damage opposed to Jump Kick's middleness), and Hi Jump Kick x2 for Snorlax (only sure way to 2HKO, but only 81% chance to hit both, while Hi Jump Kick + Jump Kick has 85.5% accuracy, but only an 88% to 2HKO). The question is if you want to fill up your moveset with all three, and I suggest you do and use the last slot for Body Slam. Body Slam is mostly for Normal switches to likely Psychics and while the damage is decent, spreading some Paralysis makes Hitmonlee somewhat more helpful. I really don't see Meditate working as getting Hitmonlee to work even without it is very difficult.
You could consider Counter for Snorlax and Tauros, but it's only useful if the opponent is both staying, and unaware that Hitmonlee could use it.
Countered Body Slam vs Tauros - 318-270 (90%-76%)
Countered Body Slam vs Snorlax - 332-284 (63%-54%)
While you get 100% accuracy opposed to Hi Jump Kick, if you use Counter incorrectly, you will waste Hitmonlee completely. His 17% CH chance isn't bad either and CHing with a Fighting move is lethal. On top, Tauros and Snorlax can both 2HKO with Earthquake + Hyper Beam guaranteed, so the pressure of Counter would just take away the Paralysis chance with Body Slam and some accuracy with Hyper Beam (and perhaps switches on that, etc). So I don't really recommend Counter for Hitmonlee.
With all this said, I would suggest Hi Jump Kick, Jump Kick, Double Kick, Body Slam for Hitmonlee. Seismic Toss is available if you have trouble with Gengar, but his Thunderbolt has a 91.7% chance to 2HKO (95% counting CHs), so you would only get 100 damage out of that most of the time. Meditate is also available if you think you can set up Hitmonlee, which increases your chance significantly to KO (both due to accuracy and the new power). And Counter is available if you want to play mindgames with Hitmonlee against your opponent, but unless you're very confident in doing that, I don't recommend it.
So we have a ton of great 1v1 strategies and a modified moveset of what's usually considered standard. How do we actually get to use Hitmonlee in OU? First off, Hitmonlee should probably stay hidden or else the opponent may be careful with their Psychics, and it's better if they're more reckless with them. Second, Hitmonlee shines against Snorlax players. Most people have both Chansey and Tauros on every team, but Snorlax is sometimes left out. Having three Pokemon that Hitmonlee can beat means the opponent has less things to switch around about with and more Pokemon for Hitmonlee to capitalize on, so he's a lot better if you use him against Snorlax players. And third, if possible, have some Paralysis spread beforehand. It can be tricky to Paralyze Tauros, but Chansey and Snorlax are Paralyzed often, which could give Hitmonlee a second Pokemon to fight and help you pressure switches more.
Getting the Normals out is hard and the opponent will often switch out to Psychics to resist the powerful Fighting moves, and OHKO back or force you to switch out. Jynx is also a major problem as all of Hitmonlee's moves are counterable, and Psychic will OHKO, forcing you to predict. I would suggest having Exeggutor and/or Jynx to support Hitmonlee to deal with opposing Psychics. Alakazam and Starmie both work well too by healing, but you have to watch out for the opponent chain-switching to Snorlax and Chansey for them. Hitmonlee will require a lot of prediction on your part, making him difficult to use, but his unique benefit having winning match-ups against all of the super Normals is unique, which only Zapdos can realistically do too.
