borat
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ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
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Post by borat on Jul 24, 2011 17:00:36 GMT -8
What? You were the one trying to argue that Zam was one of the best to take sleep with. No reason to go back on that now. But Sing's good yeah. Hyper Beam is underrated on Lapras if for Chansey/Zam alone.
Anyway, Lapras is great. Lapras and/or Zam outshines Starmie depending on the scenario. I'm partial to Lapras myself, because I think Snorlax is great and Lapras is a pretty good switch to Snorlax. And I like countering myself 'cause that's what I do.
I don't think Lapras has an electric problem. It takes non-STAB hits like a champ. Electric pokemon are rogue anyway.
While Lapras has a replaceable role, I think as a whole I'd rank it above Gengar. Partly because I think Gengar just blows anyway (literally). That's all it does. Blow.
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Post by garrinred on Jul 24, 2011 18:17:05 GMT -8
Zam doesn't 3HKO without the aforementioned crit/spc fall, though the sheer likelihood of that happening makes Zam a pretty difficult straight-up 1 v. 1. Not that Lapras can't beat it; it's just not easy. That's how a lot of Lapras's matchups go: it could beat them, but the opponent might have a bit of an upper hand in a straight-up 1-v-1. The awesome thing about Lapras isn't that it straight-up beats a lot of things; it's that it has enough options to make literally everything uneasy about switching/staying in. Even the aforementioned Reflect Chansey has to watch out for Sing, and needs to be at pretty high health to be able to switch in with the confidence that it won't be unable to put up that Reflect. Hmm, guess I read wrong. You're right that Zam can't 3hko without a crit or special fall. Factor those in, however, and you have about a 78% chance to 3hko Lapras. Furthermore, Zam can heal and Lapras can't(except for Rest, which against Zam is practically suicide). Also Zam can T-wave. As for Chansey, she should have no problem at all switching in, putting up Reflect, and then kinda just chilling there, unalble to do anything but T-wave unless she has Thunderbolt(which 3hkos). She doesn't fear Sing if she's paralyzed of if one of her teammates is already asleep. My favorite Lapras slayer is Gengar. It switches in on a Body Slam and has a lot of fun. While Lapras has a replaceable role, I think as a whole I'd rank it above Gengar. Partly because I think Gengar just blows anyway (literally). That's all it does. Blow. Gengar is excellent if you know how to use it. For me it very often sleeps one pokemon, damages a second, and blows up on a third, occassionally eating Explosions in between. It's quite difficult to use effectively though. Unlike your typical aim-and-fire Tauros or Starmie, it has a very steep learning curve, so noobs tend to make fools of themselves with it, but with enough practice the payoff is very good. I'd even say it's my second favorite team member after Zam(nothing beats Zam). ^_^ |
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Post by pocket on Jul 24, 2011 18:19:22 GMT -8
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borat
Member
ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
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Post by borat on Jul 24, 2011 18:29:28 GMT -8
Does Lapras with Hyper Beam really have lower odds at beating Chansey than with Confuse Ray + Body Slam? It seems like all it really need is a timely paralysis or a CH on an 80% Chansey for the kill. Confuse Ray may allow Lapras to hax its way through Chansey, but it's shaky from my experience. I usually end up paralyzing C-Ray Lapras and just stall it out. I would be more afraid of Lapras if Hyper Beam became the staple. I guess Sing is probably the best answer to Chansey...it would hate switching into that lol. I think HB is better than rray at dealing with Chansey. Cray is a net 0 damage turn. If you predict chansey on the switch, do you cray or Bslam? If you Bslam, then when is it you cray? Gengar's also really easy to beat if you know how. Sleeping one pokemon is lackluster, since every team can do that. Explosion and absorbing normal attacks are the only things it does. To beat gengar: when considering using a normal move, don't? Gengar gets punished by just about every pokemon for guessing wrong. |
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Post by garrinred on Jul 24, 2011 18:45:01 GMT -8
Gengar's also really easy to beat if you know how. Sleeping one pokemon is lackluster, since every team can do that. Explosion and absorbing normal attacks are the only things it does. To beat gengar: when considering using a normal move, don't? Gengar gets punished by just about every pokemon for guessing wrong. But the payoff for guessing right is excellent. MD an incoming Rhydon expecting T-bolt, for example. Switch out to avoid the EQ, only to come back in later on a Lapras or Cloyster, or on anything that's paralyzed and doesn't have Reflect(Paralyzed Starmie are especially fun to mess with). Damage whatever switches into you, then run off to something that can take the hit. Eventually blow up on Chansey or Zam. Also my Gengar serves as sleep bait. If something has to be put to sleep, it may as well be Gengar. |
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borat
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ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
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Post by borat on Jul 25, 2011 0:40:09 GMT -8
What's the payoff for guessing right? Walk me through this one. Gengar's non-STAB attacks hitting for neutral is a joke (zam/chansey/jynx/snorlax/jolteon/zapdos). He's got nothing on egg either. And I hear egg's pretty popular.
Yeah, might as well let Gengar get slept. Then what? You let it "chain switch" into body slams? Sorry, I don't see it. I've never understood the "it's useful therefore I let it get slept" argument. It's like saying "I love this cup", then smashing it to use one of the broken pieces as paperweight.
Gengar needs to "threaten" to be useful. I don't see it as "threatening". 358 is great, but with no STAB to back it. Might as well be 238. Explosion is all it has.
What kind of terrible overprediction is Rhydon into a MD-ing gengar? Walk me through this scenario? What's active vs Gengar to warrant that tbolt prediction? Starmie? Nah. Lapras? Nah. Sorry, but no cigar. If I'm predicting tbolt with any HINT of drain, I'm going to zam/chansey/egg/jynx/jolteon/whatever
Furthermore, how are you "damaging" so much stuff AND exploding on chansey/zam? If I have zam, I'm switching it into Gengar. What's exactly so hard about it?
If this post seemed rude, it wasn't meant to be. Attacking the poke/argument, not you. This is just how I type online.
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Nerd
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Post by Nerd on Jul 25, 2011 2:23:16 GMT -8
Lapras is great and is not used nearly as much as it should be. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to attempt to take on Chansey or Alakazam 1-on-1; however, Lapras' ability to finish them off is very important. I like using hyper beam on my Lapras sets.
Borat, do you even play RBY? I personally don't like Gengar all that much (Haunter is way cooler), but the arguments you make are nonsensical. Gengar is undoubtedly a great lead because the only things that outspeed him are easily walled and he can reliably put an opponent to sleep (he's the best anti-jynx lead). He can deal decent damage to Eggy with Night Shade, take out Chansey/Zam/Jynx with explosion, dodge explosions even while sleeping with a decent chance to wake up late game (hence his use as a sleep bait), do good damage with tbolt/mega drain in certain situations, and even annoy with cray. He will usually just get to put something to sleep and explode on something else, but even that is quite effective (on a side note, some players seem to blow up way too early (IDK if Icy still does that)). Rhydon/Golem often do come in against Gengar to take the sleep (used as sleep bait for similar reasons as Gengar), take an explosion, or on a tbolt (if Gengar is paralyzed and they aren't). For this reason, if you can predict your opponent you do have a chance of inflicting massive damage with mega drain. Chain switching is also certainly very viable with Gengar, as he walls normal and forces many opponents to earthquake (which presents the opportunity to bring in a flyer or eggy). Another of Gengar's main draws is his ability to wall an incredible number of pokemon.
Gengar can be extremely useful if you outpredict your opponent, but is a complete waste if you can't (explains why you don't like it). However, many good players don't like him because he doesn't add too much in terms of coverage, hypnosis has poor accuracy, and thus he poses an unnecessary risk for a player that feels they could easily win through solid play.
Also, doesn't Gengar have its own topic?
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Post by WaterWizard on Jul 25, 2011 8:37:31 GMT -8
Typical Borat, trolling about Gengar. You're wrong about Gengar, always have been, and everyone knows it. I think you just do it for the attention. I'll make a thread about him anyway.
~
And Cray+Bslam is pretty awesome.
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borat
Member
ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
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Post by borat on Jul 25, 2011 10:12:57 GMT -8
Nerd, I remember I played you a couple times (back when I played RBY), and wrecked you with UU teams, so maybe you should 'predict better'.
See what I did there?
He can put something to sleep. That's great. When has that been a problem in any RBY game? Something gets slept, that's assumed. Lapras doubles as a sleeper? And what?
Common exploders are egg, lax, golem, and gengar. Gengar doesn't have a safe switch into any of those (except gengar, irony).
Why are you taking random damage and getting exploded on zam/chansey/jynx?
And you've listed like 7 moves there. Gengar's not that unpredictable.
Forces what to EQ? Why am I forced to EQ with Snorlax? Because if I don't I'll take an stoss/tbolt? Well fuck, I better start doing it.
You take a risk switching gengar into snorlax, then you usually end up taking the same bslam anyway "chain switching" to egg. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the only reason to switch gengar in is to switch gengar out.
Gengar's high risk med reward at best. He's ok. He takes 0 damage from explosion, but everything that explodes has the potential to do like 80%+ to him. He's not great, wouldn't put him any higher than jolteons/jynxes.
Quiet ww, know your place.
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Nerd
Member
Posts: 182
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Post by Nerd on Jul 25, 2011 13:06:46 GMT -8
y u mad tho?
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Post by garrinred on Jul 25, 2011 16:05:03 GMT -8
Nerd, I remember I played you a couple times (back when I played RBY), and wrecked you with UU teams, so maybe you should 'predict better'. This was the moment I stopped taking your post seriously. |
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Post by jorgen on Jul 25, 2011 16:37:03 GMT -8
Nerd, I remember I played you a couple times (back when I played RBY), and wrecked you with UU teams, so maybe you should 'predict better'. This was the moment I stopped taking your post seriously. Don't let irrelevant snark get in the way of the points. Not that a big Gengar discussion belongs on a Lapras thread, but when points are made, don't go after the red herring. |
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Nerd
Member
Posts: 182
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Post by Nerd on Jul 25, 2011 16:49:42 GMT -8
Re: Snorlax / Celebi : OU or Uber?
« Reply #15 on Sept 24, 2010, 5:36am »
Holy shit. Well that confirms it, he mad.
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borat
Member
ANGRY!!!
Posts: 86
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Post by borat on Jul 25, 2011 16:51:10 GMT -8
Been mad since 2002. I don't break character.
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Post by pocket on Jul 25, 2011 17:03:17 GMT -8
Seems like Lapras has lost enough credit to not even get its own discussion in its own topic. sad days.
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