RBY Doubles Discussion

[Destiny Warrior]

Considering Pokemon Online's going to implement RBY soon(and I've got the thumbs up as well , I'm opening the RBY DOubles thread!

I'm not tiering the Pokemon because nobody's actually played this metagame, but hey, we can theorymon right?

One of the big things about RBY Doubles is that Hyper Beam always requires a recharge turn(since coyotte508 is only implementing Stadium mechanics). This means that Tauros no longer has a superpowered STAB for taking down Pokemon at 50%, but this is compensated for by the fact that it has a partner out on the field at the same time. Also, Earthquake on Tauros encourages the usage of Articuno etc., because they are among the few Pokemon immune toe the move. Also, Doubles would use GSC Doubles mechanics(which uses ADV Doubles mechanics), so Surf only hits your opponents! This would definitely help the likes of Slowbro.

Explosion is another big move, and will almost guaranteedly get a kill if your opponent has been brought down to ~50% range. Gengar usage is likely to be good since Gengar can harmlessly soak up Explosions. Due to this, CHansey usage will probably drop, while SLeepers become more popular due to assisting in full-out crippling an opponent in RBY, which is pretty big in the world of doubles.

Feel free to discuss Triples in this thread as well, though I honestly feel that Triples is unbalanced....

[WaterWizard]

Dodrio would be useful to evade EQ and hit Gengar, and I think Nidoking and Dugtrio will see lots of use as well.

Does EQ hit your ally? Does reflect protect both teammates?

If Reflect / Light Screen protects the whole team, then Raichu will be top tier (Thunderbolt, Surf, Reflect, Light Screen).

[Zilch]

Persian-Tauros would make a pretty cool combo. Persian Screeches their defense town, Tauros plows through them. There's a world of theory crafting out there, mind you.

Also, do moves like Surf and Razor Leaf hit both opponents like in future gens?

[Destiny Warrior]

EQ hits your ally. Reflect should protect both your teammates(remember, all RBY doubles mechanics are essentially ADV DOubles mechanics!)

Surf and Razor Leaf should hit both opponents as well, since they do that in gen 3 as well.

EDIT: Earthquake, Surf etc. lack their power nerf! This means Tauros EQ is full 100 BP, so here are the EQ damage calcs on Raichu:-

208-244(non critical hit, no screens)
403-472(critical hit)
105-124(with screens)

Seem like ok damage calcs to me. Raichu is slower sadly, so if it faces Tauros leads, its not getting to get insta-OHKOed, but it probably won't be able to get dual screens up as well.

I wonder what Tauros would run. Body Slam/Earthquake/Blizzard and what in the 4th slot? Hyper Beam is useless, so the best bet seems to be DOuble-Edge(though it will dislike the recoil).

[garrinred]

Zam will still be a beast. Zam+Gar lead combo will be fun.

[WaterWizard]

Well, my interest in Light Screen / Reflect is contingent on this: On PO, will screens last til the user switches/dies, or will it be modified to 5 turns?

If true RBY screen duration is kept, I have a feeling Dual Screens will be the focus of RBY Doubles.

Dual Screen Users:

Chansey
Clefable
Electabuzz
Electrode
Mr.Mime
Raichu
Starmie
Zapdos

I think this propels Chansey and especially Starmie to Top OU of Doubles since they can set their screens up and then just constantly Recover, providing the partner(s) with dual screens and Paralysis support for the entire game. Starmie can run Psychic for Gengar or Surf for all-out offense. Zapdos can also Rest effectively, avoids EQ, resists RL, and has access to dual screens.

~

An emphasis on dual screens will likely lead to common sights of high-crit-ratio attacks, SD, and Amnesia. Promising individuals may include these:

Dugtrio: high crit rate, EQ, Slash.
Persian: high crit rate, Slash, Screech.
Scyther: high crit rate, Slash, SD, immune to EQ, resists Razor Leaf. (lol Farfetch'd functions as Scyther, +STAB, - speed/CHR).
Machamp: Karate Chop, EQ.
Kingler/Kabutops: Crabhammer (Slash), Swords Dance, resist Surf (Slash).
Venusaur/Victreebel: RL, SD, resist RL, resist Surf.

As for the Amnesia users, they all learn Surf, and three resist it. Snorlax and Poliwrath learn EQ. Snorlax takes neutral Razor Leaf and has +100 subs.

~

Tauros will want Tbolt for Gyarados I suppose.

Charizard may be used since he both uses and dodges EQ, and also learns Reflect.

~

Another interesting possibility: Explosion/SelfD. Have Poke-A use Substitute, and Poke-B use Explosion. The two foes are hit/dead, and your pokes both remain alive! lol

~


You heard it here first,

WW

[Destiny Warrior]

How long does it last on stadium? Because Stadium mechanics will be used for Pokemon Online.

[WaterWizard]

not sure. also, Icy was wondering if the stadium rules will only be for Doubles... Surely PO will have regular in-game rules for standard RBY!?

[Nerd]

Prepare for trouble

Make it double...

TBQH I can't see this being a very enjoyable metagame, but we'll see.

[t3h Icy]

I think the insanity would be hilariously fun, but I don't think it'd be super competitive. We'd have to see how they make it and how our theories work out.

[Vaerris]

Stadium mechanics means that Focus Energy is fixed. This could be useful in a dual screens dominated metagame. The following Pokemon get Focus Energy in RBY -

Beedrill, Raticate, Nidoking, Primeape, Machamp, Marowak, Hitmonlee, Scyther, Pinsir, Jolteon, Vaporeon, Flareon.

Eeveelutions learn Reflect.

Double-Edge also has no recoil if it kills, so that could be useful on Tauros.

Substitute blocks status, so Zam leads could carry that to combat sleepers.

[t3h Icy]

Jolteon with Focus Energy is an absolute beast. Unlike Swords Dance or Amnesia users, Jolteon is ridiculously fast (100% CH Rate), has massive Special and has versatility. Critical Hits are also negligibly slightly better than doubling the offensive stat, and they can cut through Reflect and Light Screen users.

And Substitute is really interesting for Alakazam; so long as he can take a hit without it breaking, he should never be put to Sleep or be Paralyzed. Alakazam completely walls Chansey with Stadium mechanics.

[Vaerris]

Vaporeon has access to Haze to remove Dual Screens. It has stat boosting moves of it own (Focus Energy/Acid Armor) and Reflect, but using Haze cancels it's own protections as well. Haze also removes status, which could be very useful.

Sleep is less useful, as it doesn't last for as long and Substitute blocks it.

[Zilch]

Regarding Focus Energy, aside from Jolteon, I believe that Nidoking would become a wrecking ball if he could set one up. 268 Speed still puts his critical rate way up there, and 100 power critical EQ to both opponents... ouch. If Blizzard hits both opponents as well (I forget) so he can do something against grasses and flying types, then that makes him a pretty dangerous mixed sweeper. Kangaskhan would also be a nice FE user, and maybe Primeape, Hitmonlee and Raticate (though this does nothing to help Super Fang) in a lower tier.

[jorgen]

I don't think Haze removes Screens in Stadium (or anywhere), but my recollection could be failing me.

[Isa]

One pokemon Dual Screens, the other uses Substitute and fires away afterwards. WHAM! WHAM!

[Vaerris]

jorgen - Bulbapedia could be wrong, but according to them It does remove Screens.

[Destiny Warrior]

Apr 14, 2011 3:07:02 GMT -8 WaterWizard said:

not sure. also, Icy was wondering if the stadium rules will only be for Doubles... Surely PO will have regular in-game rules for standard RBY!?

Forgot to respond to this. This will apparently have Stadium mechanics *only*. No true RBY mechanics.

I'm interested in the use of FOcus ENergy, but my experience in later generation doubles makes me wonder if there will be the time to set up.

[Isa]

Wait, what? Even in regular RBY, there won't be RBY mechanics? Source on that please.

[Destiny Warrior]

21:27 coyotte508 (17:46:02) Duck_Dastardly: coyotte508
21:27 coyotte508 (17:46:05) Duck_Dastardly: are you here?
21:27 coyotte508 (17:46:24) Duck_Dastardly: for PO, will stadium mechanics or true rby mechanics be implemented?
21:27 coyotte508 po stadium

There's the source. I was on as Duck Dastardly(don't ask ).

[Isa]

Well crap. This could lead to splits in the community unless someone figures out how to tweak the code into becoming True RBY, if possible.

[WaterWizard]

We'll have to request in-game RBY mechanics.

And NBS will always be here, as well.

[Destiny Warrior]

From what I know, it *is* possible to code in true rby, but there are certain things required to be done for that.

1.Figuring out how to edit old gens db files in the client, so that there is compatibitilty with the server. Apparently, mechanics are also implemented in the client, so this could cause some issues(people like eric the espeon and captaiN on Smogon have experience modifying the db files, so I suggest whoever is coding this talk to them).

2.Editing the server so as to correct the mechanics. This is much easier, since servers use it for bug fixing all the time.

3.Hosting the download of the new client - should not be too hard.

[t3h Icy]

Is it really that hard for them to have both? The differences are so few.

[WaterWizard]

This will be an interesting meta.

[garrinred]

I still say Zam+Gar lead combo is going to destroy all.

[WaterWizard]

lol dugtrio lead destroys that

[Destiny Warrior]

Just found out that Earthquake etc. DO have their power nerf in doubles - Raichu becomes 3x better.