OU Rankings - Fall 2011

[WaterWizard]

Over the past few months, the metagame seems to have changed a bit. Not anything big, but just little changes here and there. Since it's been a year since I last posted a rankings thread, I thought I'd post another thread to discuss this.

The only changes I've made are swapping Gengar and Snorlax (from 4&5 to 5&4) and Golem and Rhydon (from 10&15 to 15&10).

The Gengar/Lax swap is due to the decreased use of Golem. Golem teams are often dominated by Gengar teams due to the relative ease in eliciting Golem entries. Snorlax is still a great poke, always going at least 1 for 1. Counter was great fun over the winter of 2010, my adapted SamTheDigitalLax (+DE, -BS) was really fun to use back in March, and I still use my Mega Kick team frequently in friendlies.

The Rhydon/Golem swap is actually due to a deeper understanding of the usefulness of Rhydon, as well as a shift in the metagame's need for Golem. After experimenting with Rhydon extensively earlier this year, I've come to the conclusion that his sheer power earns him a boost in the rankings. Also, the increased use of Starmie and Slowbro --as well as the assured presence of Eggy on every single team-- means that Golem has a hard time being useful these days. In addition, Counter Chansey (and thus the more conservative use of Hyper Beam) means Golem is catching less HBs, and even the occasional Reflect Chansey makes trainers hesitate to pick Golem during team-building. There are many other small reasons why Golem is less viable these days. Thus, I've dropped him substantially in my estimation of usefulness.

I would note that Eggy is still solidly at #1. I think all the top OU trainers will agree with that (just as they did in Fall 2010). Eggy amazes me more and more as I play RBY.

As for #2, Chansey continues to be such a staple for me in many of my teams. Counter is one of the best ways to cripple the foe's physical sweepers, and Tail Whip has proved very useful in defeating opposing special walls.

Tauros rings in at #3 yet again. His status as the very best general physical sweeper earns him this high ranking in an otherwise specially dominated metagame.

Lapras is still thoroughly mid-OU, being easily disabled by many OU pokes, and Jynx still falls last, due to my utter contempt and disdain for her.

~

Fall 2011

In my humble opinion:

1) Exeggutor
2) Chansey
3) Tauros
4) Snorlax
5) Gengar
6) Starmie
7) Alakazam
8) Zapdos
9) Lapras
10) Rhydon
11) Articuno
12) Slowbro
13) Jolteon
14) Persian
15) Golem
16) Jynx

~

Fall 2010

In my humble opinion:

1) Exeggutor
2) Chansey
3) Tauros
4) Gengar
5) Snorlax
6) Starmie
7) Alakazam
8) Zapdos
9) Lapras
10 Golem
11) Articuno
12) Slowbro
13) Jolteon
14) Persian
15) Rhydon
16) Jynx

And yours?

~

(See this old thread)

~

What do you think?

WW

(Edit by Icy: I put in the actual names lol)

[t3h Icy]

lol, I don't things have really changed, more just who has been playing lately. Though within our community, a lot of players are sharper and tougher since last year, and different players like using different Pokemon.

Also just to note that I tend to rank things based on their average usefulness at high-level play and my opinion is obviously subjective. Anyway my updated list:

1. Exeggutor
2. Tauros
3. Chansey
4. Alakazam
5. Snorlax
6. Starmie
7. Zapdos
8. Jynx
9. Gengar
10. Lapras
11. Persian
12. Golem
13. Rhydon
14. Jolteon
15. Articuno
16. Hypno
17. Slowbro

[WaterWizard]

Sept 27, 2011 22:10:37 GMT -8 t3h Icy said:

within our community, a lot of players are sharper and tougher since last year, and different players like using different Pokemon.

With that admission, I don't see how the statement "things have changed a bit" merits an LOL.

[hipmonlee]

Nice to see some of you guys starting to appreciate the might of Rhydon.

[Isa]

1. Tauros
2. Exeggutor
3. Chansey
4. Alakazam
5. Snorlax
6. Starmie
(small gap)
7. Gengar
8. Zapdos
9. Rhydon
10. Golem
11. Lapras
12. Slowbro
(gap)
13. Jynx
14. Articuno
15. Persian
16. Jolteon
17. Cloyster
18. Gyarados
19. Dragonite
...and then a big gap to the rest.

[cheese]

Okay, as I've been playing a bit more I think these are more definitive. I've put Lapras in front of Starmie, but that might swap back again!

1) Tauros
2) Exeggutor
3) Snorlax
4) Chansey
5) Alakazam
6) Lapras
7) Starmie
8) Zapdos
9) Rhydon
10) Gengar
11) Golem
12) Jolteon
13) Slowbro
14) Articuno
15) Persian
16) Jynx

Top OU: Tauros, Eggy, Snorlax, Zam, Chansey.
Mid OU: Lapras, Starmie, Zapdos.
Lower OU: Gengar, Golem, Rhydon, Jolteon, Slowbro, Articuno
Basically BL: Persian, Jynx

[jorgen]

imo, yo rocks are too low.

Assuming no wrapping:

I) Tauros
II) Egg
III) Lax
IV) Chansey
V) Zam

VI) Golem
VII) Lapras
VIII) Rhydon
IX) Starmie
X) Gengar

XI) Jynx
XII) Slowbro
XIII) Zapdos
XIV) Jolteon
XV) Persian
XVI) Articuno
XVII) Cloyster

XVIII) Victreebel
XIX) Kingler
XX) Hypno
XXI) Venusaur
XXII) Gyarados
XXIII) Dodrio
XXIV) Dragonite
XXV) Dugtrio

As with any list, the rankings get really muddled the further down you go.

[Crystal_]

#1 Tauros
(gap)
#2 Snorlax
#3 Chansey
(gap)
#4 Exeggutor
(small gap)
#5 Alakazam
(small gap)
#6 Starmie
(small gap)
#7 Golem
(gap)
#8 Cloyster (w/ clamp)
#9 Rhydon
#10 Lapras
#11 Dragonite (w/ wrap)
(small gap)
#12 Jynx
#13 Zapdos
#14 Slowbro
#15 Gengar
#16 Persian
(gap)
etc.

[t3h Icy]

Sept 27, 2011 23:07:20 GMT -8 hipmonlee said:

Nice to see some of you guys starting to appreciate the might of Rhydon.

He's garbage. ;>

[Crystal_]

He is better than Gengar.

[Consumptus]

In my opinion,

1) Exeggutor
2) Snorlax
3) Tauros
4) Chansey
5) Alakazam
6) Starmie
7) Gengar
8) Zapdos
9) Lapras
10) Rhydon
11) Articuno
12) Slowbro
13) Golem
14) Jynx
15) Persian
16) Jolteon

[garrinred]

1) Alakazam
2) Exeggutor
3) Tauros
4) Chansey
5) Snorlax
6) Starmie
7) Zapdos
8) Gengar
9) Golem
10) Slowbro
11) Rhydon
12) Jynx
13) Lapras
14) Persian
15) Kadabra
16) Jolteon
17) Articuno

#1 is absolutely non-negotiable, and Eggy is also a pretty solid #2. After that it kind of all falls apart. Snorlax vs. Tauros vs. Chansey is really close, and so is Starmie vs. Zapdos vs. Gengar, but the first three are signifcantly better than the second three.

If I may rank them in tiers:

1) The Best: Alakazam.
2) Top OU: Exeggutor, Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax
3) Mid OU: Starmie, Zapdos, Gengar, Golem
4) Low OU: Slowbro, Rhydon, Jynx, Lapras, Persian
5) Barely OU: Jolteon, Articuno

Of course, it all depends on team-building. Also skill.

[posthuman]

Since everyone's doing within-OU tiers:

1) Tauros
2) Chansey
3) Snorlax, Eggy, Alakazam
4) Starmie, Lapras
5) Gengar, Jynx, Zapdos, Golem, Rhydon
6) Articuno, Persian, Jolteon, Slowbro

Edit:

I WAS SO WRONG

Tauros
Exeggutor
Snorlax
Chansey
Alakazam
Lapras
Rhydon
Starmie
Jynx
Gengar
Zapdos
Persian
Golem
Slowbro
Articuno
Jolteon
Hypno

[hipmonlee]

Ok, since I just finished a big assignment I feel like wasting a lot of time on something completely pointless:

This is entirely based on usefulness in ou, and for your sakes I am assuming no wrap. Also it is easier that way.
(Mewtwo)
(Mew)
Tauros
Chansey
Snorlax
Exeggutor
Alakazam
Starmie
Zapdos
Lapras
Rhydon
Golem
Gengar
Slowbro
Jynx
Clefable
Cloyster
Hypno
Persian
Jolteon
Victreebel
Venusaur
Kangaskhan
Dodrio
Articuno
Sandslash
Raichu
Tangela
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Venomoth
Poliwrath
Kabutops
Kingler
Golduck
Raticate
Charizard
Gyarados
Pinsir
Machamp
-Probably the point where there becomes no point in using anything below this list except to show off-
Kadabra
MrMime
Omastar
Electrode
Electabuzz
Vaporeon
Tentacruel
Moltres
Ninetales
Flareon
Hitmonlee
Wigglytuff
Primeape
Rapidash
Scyther
Lickitung
Muk
Bellossom
Weezing
Magneton
Parasect
Butterfree
Dewgong
Arcanine
Magmar
Aerodactyl
Blastoise
Porygon
Arbok
Pidgeot
Fearow
Marowak
Hitmonchan
Seaking
Seadra
Farfetch'd
Beedrill
Golbat
Onix
Ditto

Been a while since I used a lot of these pokemon.. I wonder if I underestimated some of the high attack non normals like pinsir or hitmonlee. It is hard to evaluate that against learning thunderwave or something.

Might have missed some stuff. Might be some doubles there too..

[garrinred]

Is Clefable really that good?

Also you forgot Kadabra.

[Zilch]

Clefable is pretty mediocre in all standards, and I'd rank her near the bottom of the BLs.

If she could only have a move like Recover or Softboiled, then maybe she becomes a much better option - not up there with Chansey, but still pretty good. Way better than Porygon, anyhow.

[hipmonlee]

Clefable rocks! I love clefable, it can sleep, paralyse, counter, it can take out blissey with little trouble and its pretty bulky. There really isnt anything in OU it hasnt got a set to beat. But perhaps that is a little high.. After all it while it can do all these things, it cant do them all at once..

[Isa]

Gyarados that low!? Naaaah

[garrinred]

Don't you mean GYYAAAAH?

[Isa]

Hahaha, GYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Crystal_]

Thanks Hipmonlee.

I would personally say Lax #2 and Chansey #3, but I understand this completely depends on players. Snorlax relies on Chansey existence to be a solid top 3 after all. Though I can actually imagine some kind of a very offensively approached team that works better with its six pokes despite not having Chansey, much more easily than any non-snorlax team not being better with a Snorlax somewhere.

Zapdos so high is interesting. I know it can be as good as Snorlax overall when not facing grounds and that they aren't that great / common, but the possibility (i guess it's around one third or so) of the opponent using Don/golem is what makes me not placing it in the starm/lap/gol/don group.

And I personally like Perisan. It goes through reflect/rest things like Lax/bro and allows you to take an offenive approach vs reflect zam (or reflect chansey) if necessary. And outspeeds tau. But yeah, there areprobably too many gars out there, more than they should. Still pretty close to Zap / rocks imo.

Things like Clefable, Kingler or Gyara shouldn’t probably so high/low though, but inferior rankings are pretty irrelevant anyway.

[garrinred]

Zapdos is wonderful. Just kill Golem/Rhydon, and you're good to go. Personally I love Agility+Reflect, but other Zapdos sets can be awesome too.

There is also an anti-rock Zapdos that specializes in killing Golem/Rhydon. But that's at the cost of accomplishing almost nothing else.

[Crystal_]

If it's toxic / reflect / rest it's still very likely losing to Slide CH or Slam para before rock dies. But lol what

[garrinred]

It uses Fly, actually.

[GGFan]

This list was made a bit arbitrarily and may be edited at a later time.

1) Snorlax

I guess this makes me a bit of an iconoclast, but Snorlax is the most durable and versatile Pokemon in the game. The fact that he can utilize Reflect, Amnesia, Counter, and other useful moves gives him kind of an unpredictable edge compared to fellow sweepers. And though he isn't as good a tank as a sweeper, he can be implacable if used correctly. He has enough resilience to survive Body Slam+Body Slam+Hyper Beam from Tauros on average--in other words, he deals with bad luck better than most. Selfdestruct is the most powerful move in the game. His only real setbacks are that he's self-reliant and slow, both of which aren't that big a deal.

2) Tauros
3) Exeggutor
4) Chansey
5) Alakazam
6) Starmie
7) Jynx
8) Gengar
9) Golem
10) Lapras
11) Zapdos
12) Slowbro
13) Persian
14) Articuno
15) Jolteon

16) Rhydon

I never really thought Rhydon was all that good. Thunder Wave immunity is extremely helpful, but once you attempt to extrapolate beyond that, things just don't look very promising. Other sweepers are more potent and don't come with the myriad of weaknesses and horrible speed that Rhydon has. It would be different if Rhydon's typing was conducive towards anything besides switching into Thunder Wave and Hyper Beam: they're nice assets, but nothing that Golem can't do better. There's probably some favorable--but insignificant--statistic involving him (I don't know, maybe being able to survive Snorlax's Surf after switching into Hyper Beam; I'm not going to calc right now). Every OU Pokemon has some sort of distinguishable trait. Gengar, despite all the hate, is the fastest sleeper, can explode, and has a reasonable CH rate.

I'm ambivalent towards numbers 7-12. I've had a lot of success with all of them except for Gengar, who I've almost never used at all, so it's a bit difficult to rank them. Like I said, I may come back to this later; don't quote me here.

[Nitro]

My take would be a mix of Crystal's and Hipmonlee's lists.

Lapras is (much) better than Zapdos.

Lax and Chansey is a toss up for 2nd.

Gengar is horridly overrated by 2k10 players but he's not actually 14th. Too much random luck potential and good typing to be as low as Crystal has him. More like, tied/right above/right below slowbro which should be right after the ground/rocks.

Egg is 4th at best and will never pass the top 3 normals under any circumstances. There's a case for alakazam being better, too.

[garrinred]

Nitro, I agree with you on Lax/Chansey and Gengar, and I'm willing to ignore Eggy.

But.......Zapdos is way better than Lapras.

Aside from killing Rhydon/Golem, what can Lapras do that Zapdos can't?

[Nitro]

Beat Tauros is pretty good.

Plus that's a really big "aside". Being completely walled is a big setback.

It can also randomly freeze things and surprise sleep. Much more versatile poke imo.

[cheese]

Oct 16, 2011 21:05:56 GMT -8 @garrinred said:

But.......Zapdos is way better than Lapras.

Aside from killing Rhydon/Golem, what can Lapras do that Zapdos can't?

Surely destroying Rhydon/Golem instead of being completely walled is enough of a reason to use Lapras over Zapdos?
Either way, Lapras can sleep! I know Sing is pretty iffy, but it works reasonably well because you usually sleep a good pokemon.
Lapras also takes only 1/4 damage from Ice attacks, although I guess that it countered by Zapdos' Ground immunity.

[Crystal_]

Nitro. In my list #11 is the same as #14 I'd say. I wrote (gap) or (small gap), when I would say there is a difference.

Lapras is not completely walled by chansey (Sing/Slam/Beam [slam +beam is doing around 65%, that's a ko after body slam from Snorlax if Chansey stays in for TWaving for example] )/parafusion/rest vs non-tbolt), but Zapdos IS walled if there's rock (lets say around 35-40%?). Anyway I wouldn't say Lapras "destroys" rock, (in the sense of being a good switch-in like a non-para Starmie or Eggy is) because Rock Slide is doing +50% from Rhydon in the switch-in.

I wouldn't say Lapras is MUCH better than Zapdos, but it's probably closer to be MUCH better than Zapdos, than Zapdos being better than Lapras.

And I'd say Eggy #4, beacause of what he does defensively. He can switch-in into rock at least two times in a battle, and into Snorlax when Eggy is faster and healthy, and, in general, EQ resist is always nice defensively when combined with Rhydon/Golem vs Snorlaxes or para Tauros. Also, Gengar.