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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 28, 2011 14:44:10 GMT -8
Isa and I have just collaborated and found a great usage for BubbleBeam.
BubbleBeam - Water, 150 base, 90% accurate, 5pp, hyper beam effect.
Pokes who learn: Starmie, Dewgong, Golduck. (think Misty for these pokes)
This gives the special side a hyper-beam like effect, which adds symmetry. Isa mentioned that Barrage and Sonic Boom were other instances of balance. Nice one! I think this is awesome. Dewgong won't have STAB on it, so it would be too strong, and Golduck is pretty sucky as-is, and this helps contrast him from Poliwrath. Starmie won't be broken as she doesn't really love sitting around for a turn to take a hit/paralysis.
Any dissent?
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 28, 2011 15:30:51 GMT -8
Sounds fine, added. Also modded Fearow to give another 140 HP, to 513, so it can actually wall stuff.
I'll try to figure some more solid plans for this on Thursday.
Edit: Modified Wrapping moves:
Bind - Rock -15 Clamp - Water - 20 Fire Spin - Fire - 15 Wrap - Normal - 20
All with 65% accuracy, meaning it's about 88% to hit at least one in two turns (for switch spam), and about 8% chance to get the quintuple hit per attack (counting misses). I think this is fair, if not too nerfed. Tangela also loses Bind and gains Wrap.
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 28, 2011 17:56:00 GMT -8
I know I've been saying we need to save moves for boosts/patches later, but I think we should have a revised list of the leftovers, and take a look at some changes we can implement now.
Here are the moves we have left to tweak:
Bubble - Defense Curl - Double Team - Flash - Growl - Harden - Kinesis - Leer - Minimize - Poison Gas - Psybeam - Sand-Attack - Scratch - Strength - Swift - Tackle - Take Down -
~
Here are a few pairs that need work...
Harden & Defense Curl -Hmm these probably need something...
Flash & Sand Attack - Could leave these and just boost Flash to 100% accurate. I think these strategies are noble and not detrimental.
Minimize & Double Team - Evasion is evil. We'll have to figure some alternatives out. Probably unique moves for a couple pokes.
~
Surf - Water doesn't have any cool side effects. Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam all do... Perhaps 10% confusion? I'm a Floridian, and I know what it's like to get tossed around in the waves and not know which way is up! lol hey it's cool and benign and helps with continuity
~
I'll post more in a bit. Going to pick up some pizzas!
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 28, 2011 18:09:15 GMT -8
For Water moves, they could just have a power boost or extra PP. I think Confusion is a bit silly, but they definitely could use something since Water isn't a superb offensive type.
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 28, 2011 19:29:58 GMT -8
lol yeah because extra PP makes Surf more desirablel? I have another idea: keep Surf the same, except, make it so it never misses (Swift effect). eh? This allows it to hit the Waterfall, Dig, Teleport, Hi Jump Kick, and Fly users... I mean, it makes basic sense. Surf floods the entire screen! lol This would give Surf a slight perk. Only useful occasionally. But nice if you're particularly weak against a specific pokemon.
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 28, 2011 20:03:48 GMT -8
yeah I think Golduck will definitely be kept in check.
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 28, 2011 21:46:04 GMT -8
-Gave Raichu 20 extra Attack (298) -Surf has Swift effect -Slam is basically a Fighting type Body Slam -Rage is boosted to 85 base
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 28, 2011 22:47:26 GMT -8
Slam to Mr. Mime, Pinsir, and Kabutops, as they currently only have Submission. Also, we are not sure what to do with Arcanine yet... We realized that Charizard doesn't exactly appreciate Arcanine having Rage (nor does Seadra; too much Fire/Dragon overlap). Perhaps we could give Arcanine the same speed as Electrode? lol More discussion ahead regarding the last mono-fire pokemon...
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 29, 2011 8:20:36 GMT -8
-Added Slam to Pinsir, Mr. Mime and Kabutops -Arcanine's HP goes up to 563 and Speed down to 228 -Machamp's Special down to 198 -Weezing's Defense up to 368
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 29, 2011 14:33:58 GMT -8
Vileplume speed to 338.
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 29, 2011 20:25:15 GMT -8
With Speed like that, you have to consider how good Vileplume could end up. The thing is fighting the balance since there's 6 different types of Pokemon that can all switch into Grass, 4 of which can hit back pretty hard.
But Vileplume could work as a late Special Sweeper of some sort.
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 29, 2011 21:28:07 GMT -8
Yeah, should be interesting. Makes her a really fun pokemon, but very hard to use effectively.
Also, I just read carefully through all the pokes...
I think the only two I have any remaining qualms about atm are Parasect and Lapras.
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Post by t3h Icy on Mar 30, 2011 4:38:56 GMT -8
Well, Parasect can't be fast because of Spore, and making it bulky would be silly having arguably the worst defensive typing in the game. So maybe boost Attack way up, to be like Kingler (massive Attack + Swords Dance)? That or some unique moves.
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Post by WaterWizard on Mar 30, 2011 10:24:40 GMT -8
Well for starters, Leech Life and Cut don't really help with Swords Dance. He could learn Vicegrip (or we do have Scratch as a leftover move, though that might be more iconic if Persian gets it). I think he'd still be overshadowed by Beedril, Kingler, Pinsir, and Scyther. Currently 323, 298, 298, 158, 298, he has the 7th lowest stats and the worst defensive type combination. I was thinking if we gave him 323, 318, 318, 158, 318, he would become usable. He enjoys the low HP as it works well with Mega/Leech. Also, consider giving him Amnesia over Growth. With those stats, Vicegrip, and perhaps Amnesia, he becomes usable, imo. As for Lapras, if we give her 463, 268, 268 (+10), 218, 288, she'll be fine. Nerfing her with the boost of all these electrics, fightings, and rocks is cruel. And if you think she needs Sing too, that's probably fine. I'll just have to modify my hilarious Wigglytuff writeup! I have been through the list a few times today and, aside from these, I really don't see anyone else that needs a critical boost before we beta test. Does anyone else see anything?
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Mar 30, 2011 17:30:05 GMT -8
Me and WW just had a battle. He won 3-0. Good game
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Post by garrinred on Apr 24, 2011 9:57:23 GMT -8
I support Metronome to everyone or almost everyone. :-D
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Apr 25, 2011 14:26:17 GMT -8
Garrin mentioned something about a program he made for RBY, containing "a quick pokemon lookup, really nice damage calculator, and other such things." today - care to share?
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Post by garrinred on Apr 27, 2011 9:12:01 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm programming a sort of utility program for players of RBY+.
The most awesome function I am working on right now is a damage calculator like none I've ever seen before. The first version that will be completed will work a little like this: You have the option of selecting multiple moves(of multiple pokemon, if you wish) and/or multiple targets. So in a matter of a few seconds you can see, for example, how much damage Raichu's Surf does to Onix, Rhydon, Golem, Marowak, and Magmar. Or any other list of poekmon you can think of. Or, if you prefer, you can input the four moves you have, as well as your target, to see how much damage each move does. Or just input an attacker and target and type "All" to see a quick listing of how much damage every single move will do to the target, listed by damage. Great for seeing if your opponent can OHKO you or not at the %HP you have left, for example.
The pokemon lookup will be simpler. You type in a pokemon's name, and instantly see its type(s), stats(lv 100), movelist, and what types it's weak and resitant to.
As of right now, these are the two things that I've made great progress on. They really ought to be done by the end of the week or so, but I'm a lazy bum so it might be a little longer.
Other functions I'm looking to include as time goes on: *Damage calculator that can take into consideration things like Reflect, stat boosts/drops, and critical hits, if you want it to. *The ability to use a common nickname to refer to a pokemon, like typing "Zam" and "Gar" instead of "Alakazam" and "Gengar" *Use types and stats to find things in the damage calculator. For example, how much damage can your Hydro Pump do to every Rock type in the game? Easier to just type "Rock" instead of listing them. *Reverse damage calculation: See what pokemon you can do more than 90% damage to(for example) with one(or more) of your moves. Great for 1hkos and 2hkos. *More advanced pokemon lookup. Want a list of all the pokemon that learn Explosion, listed by Attack? Stuff like that. *"Defense Index" and "Special Defense Index"(taking both HP and the defensive stat into consideration) calculation, possibly included with the pokemon lookup. *Whatever else I think of by the time I'm done with these.
If you can't tell, this is as much a cool project I'm doing for fun as it is a tool for rby+ players. :-P
Oh, and I'm writing it in C.
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Post by t3h Icy on Apr 27, 2011 9:37:22 GMT -8
I wrote a little tool for damage calculation that you might want to implement in yours. Basically, it works like a normal damage calculator, but also calculates the chance to 2HKO, 3HKO, etc.
So take Alakazam's Psychic vs Tauros for example, and you check all the possible outputs of damage, based on the randomness of each attack. So you do 39^x calculations, with x being the number of turns used. (With the example, it's a 19/1521 chance). One other useful thing with the nature of the game is anything that may 2HKO, will 3HKO otherwise, anything that may 3HKO will 4HKO otherwise, etc. It doesn't start failing until about 6, where an attack that can 6HKO may 7HKO, but could also 8HKO, so for any chances leftover, you can assume the following attack will work. So with Alakazam's Psychic, it's safe to assume that he has a 1502/1521 to 3HKO (and he does).
The function is exponential though, so it wouldn't be useful past 3 as the number of calculations become huge very fast, but fortunately in RBY, there are enough luck-based factors where calculating the chance of a 4HKO isn't useful, and that also happens to be the point where it becomes likely a Pokemon will get a Critical across one of those turns.
I can give you the code for it if you'd like. I also have a few in-game related things (DVs, Unown, etc) if you want to make something that does everything. =) I'm really interested in how your multi-calculator will turn out. =D
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Apr 27, 2011 10:44:47 GMT -8
As of now, I think you should both upload your programs and if possible, merge them. Until then, it'll be great using Garrin's tool for creating teams for this. I think it could increase interest a lot in this.
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Post by garrinred on Apr 27, 2011 13:54:09 GMT -8
I'll take the code, sure, though depending on what language it's in it may not be of much use to me. I'm also curious about the in-game stuff, so I'll take that too if you're willing to give it to me! :-)
Right now I'm focusing on doing things in order of importance: 1) Pokemon Stats and Move Info files text created and fully usable by my program (nearly done with this). 2) Damage calculation involving multiple moves and targets (also not far from being done). 3) Nicknames for convenience(not that important, but it should be an easy matter to add) 4) More advanced damage calculation(Criticals, Reflect-effects, Stat ateration) 5) Reverse damage calculation(What can you do X% damage to?) 6) Percentage chance to do X% damage(mostly for ohko considerations, but doesn't have to be limited to that) across a certain number of turns. 7) Percentage chance to do X% damage(or ohko) across multiple turns using multiple moves(What are the chances that a Tauros Body Slam followed up by a Tauros Hyper Beam will KO?) 8) Whatever else we think of if and when I actually get this far(unless something more important gets bumped up higher.)
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Post by t3h Icy on Apr 27, 2011 14:19:10 GMT -8
I was lazy with naming stuff. This was made in VB6, so some things that aren't variables are objects. Dim v As Integer Dim w As Integer Dim x As Integer Dim x1 As Double Dim a(38) As Integer Dim b(38) As Integer Dim qqq As Integer Dim ppp As Integer
Private Sub Calculate_Click()
v = (Fix(((0.84 * Attack * Base / Defense) + 2) * Multiplier / 255 * 217)) w = (Fix(((0.84 * Attack * Base / Defense) + 2) * Multiplier))
If (v > HP) Then KO = "Guaranteed OHKO" ElseIf (w > HP) Then For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 If ((w / 255 * (217 + i)) >= HP) Then x1 = x1 + 1 Next i KO = x1 & "/39 chance to OHKO (" & (x1 / 39) * 100 & "% )" x1 = 0 ElseIf (v * 2 > HP) Then KO = "Guaranteed 2HKO" ElseIf (w * 2 > HP) Then For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 a(i) = w / 255 * (217 + i) Next i For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 For j = 0 To 38 Step 1 If ((a(i) + a(j)) >= HP) Then x1 = x1 + 1 Next j Next i KO = x1 & "/1521 chance to 2HKO (" & (x1 / 1521) * 100 & "% )" x1 = 0 ElseIf (v * 3 > HP) Then KO = "Guaranteed 3HKO" ElseIf (w * 3 > HP) Then For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 a(i) = w / 255 * (217 + i) Next i For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 For j = 0 To 38 Step 1 For k = 0 To 38 Step 1 If ((a(i) + a(j) + a(k)) >= HP) Then x1 = x1 + 1 Next k Next j Next i KO = x1 & "/59319 chance to 3HKO (" & (x1 / 59319) * 100 & "% )" x1 = 0 Else KO = "Cannot 3HKO" End If
qqq = (Fix(((0.84 * Attack * Base / Defense) + 2) * Multiplier)) ppp = (Fix(((0.84 * Attack * Base / Defense / 2) + 2) * Multiplier))
For i = 0 To 38 Step 1 a(i) = qqq / 255 * (217 + i) b(i) = ppp / 255 * (217 + i) Next i For j = 0 To 38 Step 1 For k = 0 To 38 Step 1 If ((a(j) + b(k)) >= HP) Then x1 = x1 + 1 Next k Next j KO = x1 & "/1521 chance to 2HKO (" & (x1 / 1521) * 100 & "% )" x1 = 0
End Sub Here's a download. It's EXE, but I promise it won't blow up your computer. Mind you, I only made it to count up to 3HKOs, and it's only for Level 100s.
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Post by garrinred on Apr 27, 2011 17:18:48 GMT -8
Interesting!
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Post by garrinred on Apr 29, 2011 6:45:30 GMT -8
Played a neat Pen and Paper match against Isa and beat him 4-0. I don't know about anyone else, but I really really felt the need for a tool like the one I'm programming. :-)
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Post by t3h Icy on Apr 29, 2011 7:54:28 GMT -8
It's a bit of a pain to do things by hand, but it looks like you guys are fine without me, ha.
Did you guys save the server log or anything? I wouldn't mind checking it out. Anything interesting happen or you noticed?
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Post by jorgen on Apr 29, 2011 10:04:35 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to do a battle by hand?
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on Apr 29, 2011 10:30:17 GMT -8
2 hours from start to finish, in both of the battles I've done. Nothing interesting happened - his Zam swept my team, he got a CH on my Electrode switchin which killed it, and then I had 4 pokemon remaining, 3 with psychic weaknesses and 1 Seadra with 75 HP. I build my team very poorly, so it was basically an autoloss against his Zam/Gengar. I've built a new team which this time around covers all types except for Dragon, lol. Garrin and I will play another game today if everything goes according to plan. I also used Toxic too much, it didn't help me in the least Protip to everyone, don't use it if you can't stall (I couldn't).
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Post by garrinred on Apr 29, 2011 10:33:19 GMT -8
It took a while, mostly because move making has to go on a "3....2....1..." deal and for damage calculation you need to input stats every single time, after you do your rolls. Maybe an hour or two? I don't remember exactly.
I noticed quite a few things. The lack of sleep was a little odd, mostly because it would actually be fairly easy to roll. The other big thing I noticed was having to show your team right at the beginning. No surprises when it comes to pokemon and movesets, and that can really change the game. Also, when considering sweepers, speed is key. My team had 4 of the fastest sweepers in Plus(2 special, 1 physical, and 1 mixed) and it really showed. I'm sure walls or tanks could have taken them on, but I basically faced a team of slower sweepers and swept them right up.
More than anything, I'm feeling the need for a damage calculator like the one I'm building. Instant at-a-glance check of how much each of my moves can do to each of his pokemon? Yes please. Damage calculation by hand(even with a tool that has you input stats) is annoying.
Oh, and Zam is still a crazy beast. Keep him this way. :-)
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Post by WaterWizard on Apr 30, 2011 15:26:16 GMT -8
+Toxic to Ditto solves the Ditto Dittos... Perfect!
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Post by garrinred on Apr 30, 2011 17:31:08 GMT -8
I agree that ditto-dittos are just fine the way the are, wihtout need to give ditto another move.
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