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Post by Destiny Warrior on May 3, 2011 17:09:22 GMT -8
Wait. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Icy, when I upload my db patch, could you fix the self-KO moves? I implemented them with the BP that was there in the thread OP *sadface* And also, I'm not very likely to want to go through that the whole thing again... Nah, I'm kidding, I'll go through that dastardly file again and fix it
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Post by t3h Icy on May 3, 2011 18:44:46 GMT -8
I updated the first posts with a more informational way of showing everything. I did Find and Replace for colours a lot, so there's a lot of colours where they shouldn't be. I'll fix all of them tomorrow for I must slumber after doing all of that. zzz-_-
Edit: WaterWizard, just to let you know, don't edit anything until I'm all finished or you might blow everything up!
Edit 2: It looks kinda crappy, but I'm not finished. Soon it'll only look slightly crappy. C=
Edit X: I noticed a ton of errors reading through things. They'll be fixed too (Machamp is not Psychic).
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Post by WaterWizard on May 3, 2011 22:01:27 GMT -8
Oops, Lapras never got fixed.
Lapras: Water/Ice 463, 268, 268 (+10), 218, 288.
Yes?
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Post by t3h Icy on May 4, 2011 8:34:28 GMT -8
I'm fixing it now.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 4, 2011 9:07:34 GMT -8
Cool, I'll add the updated Lapras stats to the Excel file, and then I think that makes it totally up to date. I'll upload it in a bit.
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Post by t3h Icy on May 4, 2011 9:35:19 GMT -8
Half way done, more later.
Don't upload it on the main posts yet since I'm still editing it. Just put the link in a post or something.
Edit: Okay, now you can.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 4, 2011 9:39:53 GMT -8
I suggest making Normal a cream color for now.
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Post by Consumptus on May 4, 2011 13:17:56 GMT -8
Are we going to change Growl to -2 Attack in response to all the +1 => +2? This is a note I think I brought up a while ago, but I don't think we addressed it.
If we do, we're going to have to lower the PP.
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Post by t3h Icy on May 4, 2011 13:46:27 GMT -8
If we can give it the Charm effect, definitely.
Also, I've finished all the colour changing and editing the main posts now. WaterWizard and I have to somewhat update our comments, and there's a few moves we haven't played around with.
After that, unless someone points out a problem or gives an idea, the planning is all finished. Next step will be implementing it, and with the looks of things, Pokemon Online should have RBY soon.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 4, 2011 14:37:09 GMT -8
I'm totally fine with -2 Growl.
Also, Destiny Warrior says 30% confusion chances for the relevant 3 moves is doable. And Roar can have 30% chance to lower defense. As for a 30% speed fall (String Shot), there is no existing future-gen move, but it can still be coded (just takes a bit more time).
~
We'll need to lobby PO to have In-Game Hyper Beam and Substitute.
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on May 4, 2011 14:58:22 GMT -8
Error: The movelist says TBolt, TPunch and TShock all have 10% chance to paralyse, AFAIK TShock used to lower attack - Jolteon's comment says so.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 4, 2011 15:20:18 GMT -8
fixed it here.
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Post by t3h Icy on May 7, 2011 10:57:05 GMT -8
WaterWizard and I are currently going through everything slowly and trying to fix imbalances now that we've done a few matches. We're going to try to use up the remaining moves too.
Once that's done, except for mistakes, etc, that'll be it for our alpha copy of RBYPlus. Once real battles begin on Pokemon Online, we'll start editing and adjusting some more as we're just papercrafting everything so far.
We'll have everything posted as soon as we're done.
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Post by t3h Icy on May 10, 2011 13:22:57 GMT -8
So after about 18 hours of discussing, theorycrafting, calculating and all sorts of stuff, WaterWizard and I came up with a final list of edits. Anything after this will be mistakes fixed or balances once RBYPlus is actually implemented.
Mind you, I'll get these updated in the thread eventually, following that we'll both do new write-ups, but it might take awhile.
Here are all the changes:
Bonemerang - 5PP Bubble - Water, 80 Base, 100% Accuracy, 30% Flinch, 15PP Defense Curl - Rock, Recovers, 5PP Dizzy Punch - 75% Accuracy Double Team - Normal, Confuses, 100% Accuracy, 10PP Ember - 90 Base Flash - Electric, 100% Accuracy, reduces Accuracy, 20PP Focus Energy - 180 Base, 100% Accuracy Fury Attack - 35 Base, 95% Accuracy Fury Swipes - 35 Base, 95% Accuracy Harden - +1 Attack Horn Attack - 35 Base, 95% Accuracy Leech Life - 100 Base Kinesis - Psychic, 90% Accuracy, Paralyzes Minimize - Normal, Raises Defense + 1, 20PP Night Shade - 80% Accuracy Petal Dance - 5PP Pin Missile - 35 Base Poison Gas - 20% Accuracy, OHKO, 5PP Poisonpowder - 100/100%/no effect Pound - 150 Base, 100% Accuracy, Petal Dance effect, 5PP Psybeam - Psychic, 150 Base, 90% Accuracy, Hyper Beam effect, 5PP Razor Wind - 95 Base Sand-Attack - Ground, reduces Accuracy, 20PP Scratch - Normal, 85 Base, 100% Accuracy, 30% Burn, 10PP Skull Bash - 180 Base Sky Attack - 180 Base Splash - Water, 150 Base, 100% Accuracy, Petal Dance effect, 5PP Smokescreen - 150, 75% Accuracy, 10% Confusion Solarbeam - 180 Base Strength - Fighting, 150 Base, 100% Accuracy, Petal Dance effect, 5PP Swift - 95 Base Tackle - Electric, 120 Base, 100% Accuracy, 1/4 Recoil, 5PP Take Down - Ground, 120 Base, 100% Accuracy, 1/4 Recoil, 5PP Thrash - 90% Accuracy, 5PP Thundershock - 90 Base Tri Attack - Psychic, 100% Accuracy, Leeches, 5PP Water Gun - 90 Base Whirlwind - 75% Accuracy
Venusaur: Type Change to Grass/Ground, Add Earthquake/FissureSkull Bash/Vine Whip, Remove Poisonpowder Charizard: 308 Special, Add Bite Blastoise: Add Rock Throw/Rock Slide Butterfree: 318 Speed, Remove Poisonpowder/Stun Spore Pidgeot: Add Screech Raticate: 198 Defense, Add Thunderbolt/Thunder Arbok: Add Rock Throw, Remove Leer Sandslash: 218 Speed, 218 Special, Add Rock Throw/Rolling Kick Nidoqueen: 473 HP, 328 Defense, 308 Special, Add Fury Attack/Rock Throw/Lovely Kiss Nidoking: 328 Attack, 278 Special, Add Fury Swipes/Rock Throw/Lovely Kiss Clefable: 248 Attack, 318 Defense, 248 Special Ninetales: Add Amnesia/Disable Wigglytuff: 238 Special Golbat: Add Disable Vileplume: Remove Sleep Powder Parasect: 308 Attack, 308 Defense, 308 Special, Add Amnesia/Fury Swipes, Remove Growth Venomoth: 288 Speed, Add Sludge, Remove Solarbeam/Psychic Dugtrio: Add Rock Throw Primeape: Add Rock Throw, Remove Leer Alakazam: Add Kinesis Machamp: Add Rock Throw, Strength Victreebel: Add Lick Golem: 228 Special, Add Defense Curl/Rolling Kick Rapidash: Add Fissure/Flamethrower/Take Down Magneton: 418 Defense, Add Explosion Farfetch'd: 383 HP, 318 Attack, 228 Defense, 228 Speed, 318 Special, Add Amnesia/Blizzard/Fire Blast/Thunder, Remove Swords Dance Dodrio: 328 Attack, Add Leer Dewgong: 238 Defense, 318 Speed, 338 Special Muk: 328 Attack, Add Acid/Smog Gengar: 293 HP, Add Hypnosis, Remove Mega Drain/Submission/Thunder Cloyster: Add Bind, Remove Reflect Onix: 293 HP, 218 Attack, 458 Special, Add Defense Curl/Growth/Harden/Reflect Hypno: 403 HP Kingler: Remove Stomp Marowak: Remove Headbutt/Leer Lickitung: Remove Rest Weezing: Add Flamethrower Kangaskhan: Add Rock Throw/Rolling Kick Seadra: Add Fire Blast, Remove Ice Beam Seaking: 308 Attack Starmie: Add Confuse Ray Electabuzz: Remove Reflect Magmar: 238 Defense Tauros: Add Take Down Lapras: Add Lovely Kiss Vaporeon: Add Growth Jolteon: Add Growth Flareon: Add Growth Porygon: Add Disable Kabutops: Add Rolling Kick, Remove Blizzard/Hydro Pump Snorlax: 228 Defense, Remove Rock Slide Moltres: Add Flamethrower/Fury Attack/Glare/Screech, Remove Leer Dragonite: Remove Agility/Leer Mewtwo: Remove Thunder Wave
Swift users: Aerodactyl Arcanine Charizard Electrode Farfetch'd Golbat Mewtwo Ninetales Porygon Raichu Sandslash Scyther Starmie
Psybeam users: Porygon
Bubble users: Persian Raichu Raticate
Poison Gas users: Weezing Muk
Tackle users: Raichu
Scratch users: Dugtrio Golduck Persian Primeape Sandslash
Minimize users: Clefable Chansey Wigglytuff
Double Team users: Dugtrio Magneton Dodrio Exeggutor
Tri Attack users: Porygon
Defense Curl users: Golem Onix
Harden users: Onix
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Post by t3h Icy on May 12, 2011 13:35:09 GMT -8
All done. All that's left is for WaterWizard and I to do new write-ups and put up a new spreadsheet. From there it's just correcting any mistakes or balance problems.
And then we wait... =P
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Post by WaterWizard on May 12, 2011 20:02:41 GMT -8
just updated the spreadsheet. find it here!~ next I'll update all my write-ups and then Icy will update his.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 17, 2011 9:34:20 GMT -8
Predicting we'll have to remove Disable from Alakazam. We'll seeee And Mew is probably still way too good, too... (see PsyBeam)...
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Post by t3h Icy on May 20, 2011 16:03:14 GMT -8
Mew has garbage stats and dies to everything though, but we'll see. =)
Anyway, WaterWizard and I still have to finish the last section of write-ups and I have a few more files to edit.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 24, 2011 15:49:20 GMT -8
We'll adjust when we start testing. I'm not particularly worried about a move that does nothing 80% of the time. 15% might be in order, but we'll see.
Fixed the missing Growth.
Any other specific move errors? I'll skim through.
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Post by pocket on May 24, 2011 15:54:04 GMT -8
Fair enough, WW. Here's my spiel on it, though.
I feel like priority moves should be capped at 75, and I really like replacing the OHKO effect for high-damage-but-inaccurate, 100% flinch move. Still needs to be faster to flinch the opponent, which is kind of like OHKO. Less of a high-risk and high-reward and less luck-oriented.
Thanks for considering. Marowak is also missing Night Shade.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 24, 2011 16:06:20 GMT -8
Marowak gets hit by Night Shade. He can't use it. I'll clarify the sentence to make that clearer.
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Isa
Member
FOREVER SECOND
Posts: 1,479
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Post by Isa on May 24, 2011 16:06:22 GMT -8
Another minor error, Mr. Mime is listed as having a 0.5x resistance to bug, but is 1x resistant to it with his Psychic/Fighting typing.
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Post by WaterWizard on May 24, 2011 16:59:57 GMT -8
Fixed that, too. Thanks!
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Nerd
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Posts: 182
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Post by Nerd on Jun 5, 2011 0:22:23 GMT -8
Finally got around to skimming though this, and it's not what I expected at all. I anticipate it will be a lot more like later generations. It seems moves in general have been boosted, as have stats. I imagine this will make the games more quick, as these new 120+ base power moves seem to have replaced the old norm of 85-100 BP attacks that dominated RBY. Actually, IMO the move balance is all wrong; in many cases, the inaccurate moves are statistically better than their more consistent counterparts (e.g. for Pidgeot, whirlwind > wing attack, and that's even before critical chance is considered). You should have the accurate moves do more damage on average (especially a high-crit move). The staple moves should all be 90-100% accurate, so games are be screwed over by luck less often. The priority moves are WAY OP at 100 base power, by the way. I would think you would have a priority move for utility purposes and have a second attack of the same type on the same pokemon for general attacking, but that doesn't seem necessary when priority moves are so good. For example on Articuno, mist averages more damage on average than either ice beam or blizzard AND attacks with priority. Oh and it says pound hits 2-5 times at 150 base power... The type changes are hit-and-miss for me; giving marowak ghost typing is a great idea, but some of the other changes are kinda unnecessary (why is tauros ground). I kinda like the balance between offense and defense in RBY, but it looks like RBYPlus will consist of powerful pokemon that 2HKO eachother and a couple bulky pokemon. Fortunately there is no Hidden Power, so pokemon can still wall eachother. In general, RBYPlus is a completely new metagame and not just a rebalanced version of RBY as I expected. I suppose it could work, but it's going to take a lot of time to refine.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 5, 2011 7:41:11 GMT -8
Thanks. =) I imagine this will be a total mess and probably not be too fun off the bat, but we'll adjust things and make changes as we go.
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 6, 2011 17:31:16 GMT -8
We removed Rest on Lickitung because of that though, so you have one chance to dominate. Anything with high Defense should be fine and Lickitung while having no weaknesses and three immunities, can't take any type of Special attack well.
On the plus side, Lickitung works wonders with Swords Dance and a unique offensive combination, with a lot of other attacks to use. SD + Wrap is a powerful combo too. Lickitung can jump in on a lot of Pokemon too.
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Nerd
Member
Posts: 182
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Post by Nerd on Jun 6, 2011 19:31:28 GMT -8
Suggestion: Eliminate speed ties by giving each pokemon a unique speed stat. For example in RBY you might increase Persian's speed by 2 so it outspeeds Starmie.
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Post by WaterWizard on Jun 6, 2011 19:43:24 GMT -8
speed ties are part of the game. when we were redoing speeds we tried to take each tie into consideration. i'm assuming your rationale would be to remove another aspect of "luck" from the game?
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Post by t3h Icy on Jun 6, 2011 19:46:06 GMT -8
That, playing with accuracies etc could actually make Pokemon a lot less luck-based.
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Nerd
Member
Posts: 182
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Post by Nerd on Jun 6, 2011 22:51:18 GMT -8
i'm assuming your rationale would be to remove another aspect of "luck" from the game? yup
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