Old RBYPlus Comments

[t3h Icy]

EDIT: Old comments on RBYPlus as it was being developed.

[WaterWizard]

cool. haha I can't wait for this!

and my write-ups are pretty much amazing. loving reading these puns after two months.

[WaterWizard]

I'm thinking Thunder to 75% accuracy. Electrics got no boost and 70% is unusable by most standards. I mean, Hydro Pump is 85, Blizzard is 80, Fire Blast is 85. Let's just go ahead and do it. Otherwise Thunder will continue to never be used and the electrics will be shafted by the boosted grounds/grasses.

and I think Mew looks way uber lol. so much potential with these new moves (pay day, teleport, wahaha love it). we'll see what happens. HP to 303 maybe.

[t3h Icy]

We left Thunder at 70% because we boosted paralysis to 30%.

Also there's a lot of Pokemon that look broken (like Raticate), but I'm not sure of Mew yet. I was thinking Spore, Amnesia, Recover, Kinesis/Tri Attack.

We'll go over everything more shortly.

[WaterWizard]

These are the moves that we still have to work with:

Bide
Bubble
Bubblebeam - Perhaps something for Starmie or another if Misty's pokemon
Confusion - I still think Butterfree should be the unique user of this. But idk what it should do...
Conversion - Probably should stay the same. I see it being usable now and it's unique.
Double Team - perhaps a unique move for Mime/Raichu/other later to balance
Flash - Perhaps a unique move later to help boost certain electrics if they suck
Growl - This could be changed to GSC Charm (-2 attack). Attack lowering will be more useful now.
Harden
Leer - This move is already very useful for pokemon like Tauros. I'd say it's good.
Poison Gas - perhaps a unique move for weezing that lower's the foe's attack by two (x4 weak to ground)
Psybeam
Scratch
Slam
Strength - Machamp exclusive move? later?
Swift - maybe just a power boost and/or type change.
Tackle
Take Down - I was thinking Arcanine still isn't very good... maybe some unique move for him. Perhaps 1/2 recoil


Strength could be a unique move for Machamp. We should save a lot of these to use later to balance things out. Double Team as another one that could be a unique move for someone (Raichu, Mime, etc), since lowering accuracy (especially with a universal TM) isn't really good for the metagame.


More later

[Aether Nexus]

So we're basically changing the RBY mechanics to how they are in today's newer generation mechanics? So for example, things like Thrash will have 120 power since this was boosted in BW? Or is this just giving a boost to some Pokemon in the game to make RBY more balanced?

TL;DR above, but will later on when I have more time. And also, why spend all the time writing this all up now when this goal for this hasn't even been nearly achieved?

Also, if it's public, then how do we log in to play this? Is this a whole new simulator you guys made or it's going to be like a modded add-on to our NBS server?

Edit: Thrash - Dragon, 150, 100%, 10PP, Attacks 2-3 turns, then confused
(A buffed Outrage, but it may be broken since nothing resists Dragon)

So why is it Dragon-type? Why not leave it Normal-type? This can be a replacement to Hyper Beam since it most likely wont be used as I'm sure HB is fixed in this "new" RBY. So technically, this isn't RBY; it's a modded RBY.

~ Aether Nexus

[t3h Icy]

Nov 9, 2010 16:56:44 GMT -8 Aether Nexus said:

TL;DR

The problem is there. =)

All the information is in the intro.

EDIT: God Aether. =/ It's public, because you guys weren't able to view it before. If you check the dates, this board has existed since August, but was only viewable by staff.

And yes this is clearly a mod for RBY.

[Aether Nexus]

Nov 9, 2010 17:00:31 GMT -8 t3h Icy said:

Nov 9, 2010 16:56:44 GMT -8 Aether Nexus said:

TL;DR

The problem is there. =)

All the information is in the intro.

EDIT: God Aether. =/ It's public, because you guys weren't able to view it before. If you check the dates, this board has existed since August, but was only viewable by staff.

And yes this is clearly a mod for RBY.

Well, I guess I'll give it a shot if this ever actually comes to be and is playable, but I can also see how/why Crystal got a bit P/O'd on such a matter. It's not really RBY anymore, nor much of Pokemon anymore. It'll be fun for people who dislike regular RBY, or RBY with trades, etc., but for people who enjoy modded battling versions, then this will be fun and quite different.

Well, I'll just read the intro later. I'm sure it'll answer my questions.

~ Aether Nexus

[WaterWizard]

Aether,

You need to read it all before you comment. I was apprehensive about putting the move database above the Pokemon write-ups, because they look crazy out of context. Read the write-ups (for instance, Thrash is briefly explained in the Dragonite write-up).

This is something unique. It's RBY where every pokemon is usable. None of the mechanics are changed except Ghost. All the move edits are recycled older moves/effects.

The only reference to future gens is some GSC similarities in % effects (Thunder's Paralysis rate, etc) and a few other things.

For instance,

Blastoise is Quagsire'esque.
Magneton is GSC'esque (we made due with Rock)

I am proud of what we did with Thrash. We made it like GSC Outrage, since we're not making any new moves. There are plenty of Normal attacks.

Also, we made Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan have moves similar to Drain Punch.

Other than that, we didn't "try to make it like B&W."

All we did was fix the ghost glitch and then try to level the playing field.

Read it all and mull over it. I love it the more I think about it.

WW

PS: when we get this done, I think it will actually get a LOT of attention. No other generation has universal usability. It will make team building and strategy much more important, all while maintaining the RBY nostalgia that everyone feels.

[t3h Icy]

The reason why I had moves above Pokemon is so that you can see what's actually usable of their lists. Many Pokemon run off of their moves.

Basically it's the same thing as having moves first, but I figure most people will realize that the Pokemon are being modded too (as they read down and are only at the attack section).

Oh well, you really have to read the whole thing first to get a good grasp of everything that's happening. If you only look at a few moves and a few Pokemon, they'll be completely out of place because they're way too powerful; you need to view all the changes.

[Consumptus]

What about the mechanics? Will they remain the same as RBY? As in, Hyper Beam being "free" if you KO, Freeze only wears off after a fire move, etc.

I think Aether asked this, but I couldn't see an obvious answer in the replies.

[t3h Icy]

Mechanics will remain the same, and the Hyper Beam turn loss is the same. The Hyper Beam recharge is technically an 'effect' like 30% paralysis, 10% to Freeze, 10% to lower Defense, etc. Moves that are listed as unchanged or have no change to their effects have the same effects.

[Crystal_]

Wow, I have to admit you have done a lot of work.

Anyway I don't find necesary having made all pokes balanced, as this doesn't exist in any meta.

Also, about team building, it becomes more uncertain with everything balanced (or supposed to be). Maybe what it could raise is teams advantage (like golem-zapdos), as there is not place for using all types of pokes, and each one serves as a especific counter maybe.. bah idk, good job!

Btw, Nidoqueen BST is much higher than Nidoking one =(

Poison Sting - Poison, 35, 100%, 5PP, Hits 2-5 times
(While the power is very high (maybe too high), Poison isn't a great offensive type)

Remember than multi-hit moves only have a 12,5% chance of hitting 4-5 times.

What about a multy-type (ice, fire, electric) tri attack?

Struggle - Dragon, 50, 100%, -, 1/2 Recoil
(Due to many new Ghosts, Struggle is Dragon to avoid any ties)

Just make it typeless

Swift, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Toxic, Wrap

Thrash?

lol, realised Mew and Zam have the LOWEST stats. I think you are taking the word "balance" too serious.

Hitmonlee is going to kick our ass!!!!!!!!1

[t3h Icy]

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Anyway I don't find necesary having made all pokes balanced, as this doesn't exist in any meta.

Why should we only make things the way they are in other generations? It's one of the goals of the project which is one of the reasons why this stands out.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Also, about team building, it becomes more uncertain with everything balanced (or supposed to be). Maybe what it could raise is teams advantage (like golem-zapdos), as there is not place for using all types of pokes, and each one serves as a especific counter maybe.. bah idk, good job!

We made sure that everything has at least a general counter (not a specific counter), so it's not a matter of having specific Pokemon, but a general strategy against everything, whether it's a type (Ground for Electrics), a staller (Chansey and other Special stallers for Dragonite), or something offensive (Electric power for Kingler). If there's anything we overlooked though, let us know. =)

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Btw, Nidoqueen BST is much higher than Nidoking one =(

That's because Nidoking is faster and offensive stats are generally more desired. Look at RBY; Nidoking is almost always selected over Nidoqueen. The extra HP Nidoqueen has helps improve her viability over Nidoking.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Remember than multi-hit moves only have a 12,5% chance of hitting 4-5 times.

Yes, I'm aware. It's a 3/8 chance for 2, 3/8 for 3, 1/8 for 4 and 1/8 for 5. Multi-hit moves are gambles, but by power, rather than accuracy (such as Thunderbolt vs Thunder). While you'll often only do 70-95 in Base Power, there will be times you do 130 and 155, which is a large amount of damage. The catch is it's a gamble. Also note that Poison Sting has 5 more per hit than other multi-hit moves. We did this since Poison is a horrible type offensively.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

What about a multy-type (ice, fire, electric) tri attack?

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Just make it typeless

We'll be more creative if we can modify the coding of moves to what we want. What we currently have is all possible with a ROM by simply changing hex data values (which I can do with ease). However, battling each other via ROM/Emulator isn't perfectly stable and teams can't be built instanteously.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Thrash?

Fixed, thanks.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

lol, realised Mew and Zam have the LOWEST stats. I think you are taking the word "balance" too serious.

Mew can have any set of moves, including a bunch of the 'broken' unique moves like Pay Day and Thrash. Mew is very experimental and depends on how creative players can be, so I'm not sure if he's uberly good or uberly bad yet. Alakazam also has the lowest stats overall, but you have to factor in he has a great type, and very high stats in arguably the two most important ones (especially for his role). The main reason his overall stats are so low is because his Attack was nerfed, but that stat doesn't matter for a Specialist.

Nov 12, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -8 Crystal_ said:

Hitmonlee is going to kick our ass!!!!!!!!1

Ghosts, Bugs and general Defensive Pokemon take care of him. Marowak hard counters Hitmonlee by being immune to all but Rolling Kick, which he resists with Ground and absorbs with his massive defense.

[Crystal_]

With team advantage i meant... team advantage. Having Marowak or not when your opponent have Electrode. More team options implies team advantages when complete counters do exists, but that's a given.

The ass kick was just a joke.

[WaterWizard]

Essentially, this is all amazing!

We won't know for sure what to set Mew's stats at until we try him out. However, at this point I think his states are pretty good or even too high. There are some powerful combinations.

We'll try to balance things out when we beta test... Certain pokemon will probably be too good/bad initially but we can tweak it.

Hitmonlee is awesome, but he has very hard counters.

Tentacruel is wicked!

There is no typeless hexa in RBY as far as I know.

[Crystal_]

Yesterday at 19:08, Crystal_ wrote:
What about a multy-type (ice, fire, electric) tri attack?

[t3h Icy]

Nov 12, 2010 11:15:19 GMT -8 t3h Icy said:

We'll be more creative if we can modify the coding of moves to what we want. What we currently have is all possible with a ROM by simply changing hex data values (which I can do with ease). However, battling each other via ROM/Emulator isn't perfectly stable and teams can't be built instanteously.

[Crystal_]

kk. Didn't realise. sry

[WaterWizard]

haha thought ggfan would like it and i'm glad he approves!!! =)

[t3h Icy]

Currently, we're leaving them out, but we may decide to do something with them later.

[t3h Icy]

Suggestion from Zilch: Metronome's PP from 10 to 15?

Also Metro will be super fun in this. =D

[WaterWizard]

sounds good to me. lot of the PP will have to be modified once we get a feel for the meta. i think stallers will be majorly hurting by all this low pp.

[gunbladelad]

Just had a thought for a possiblity for Flash - reducing the opponent's evasion or increasing the accuracy of your own Pokemon. (Either could work)

It could add some possiblities for using lower-accuracy moves.

BTW, I like the beedrill modifications. Looking forward to using it...

[WaterWizard]

haha new you'd like the Beedril stuff.

Personally, I think evasion/accuracy detracts from the game.

happy thanksgiving

[gunbladelad]

It was actually because there's no move like that, that I suggested it.

Should be relatively simple to modify it, as the formulas for sand attack

[t3h Icy]

It's definitely a simple procedure, but depending on how flexible we can be with modifying moves, it may be trickier than said. For modifying moves to an already existing effect, we just modify the hex value for a move's effect to the corresponding one (such as changing Night Shade's effect to the value that gives 30% Burn). However, if no such hex value exists for something (such as +1 Accuracy), it would need not only an unused hex value, but brand new hard-coding to create that effect. Of course it would be a simple procedure; just make an effect add 1 to the accuracy modifier of the user. However, when everything is in hexadecimal and not any sort of English or even a high-level computer language, it can be very difficult.

Of course though, RBY was made in 1998 and Pokemon Online will be out with the 1st generation in 2011. If the coding is much easier to work with, then I'll certainly open the possibilities for brand new effects and everyone's creative side can be unleashed.

Again, everything that you see for Project RBYPlus thus far is completely possible to create a ROM hack of without much difficulty. The reason why that's not being done is there's no simple way to organize and play each other using emulators (mostly due to stability problems).

WaterWizard and I will be attempting this method of play (using emulators) soon and we'll see how it turns out and as a simple test run (I'll record it for all to see though). Even if it does go well, it would be tedious creating a full set of every final form at Level 100 with perfect stats and the desired movesets. On top, RBY on gameboy doesn't have any battle flags like Netbattle, so there is no Freeze Clause, Sleep Clause etc.

Pokemon Online will be the new RBY emulator soon, and if I can take a look at server creation and modifying stuff, Harrison and I will be creating/coding RBYPlus.

[gunbladelad]

Looks like half my post got cut when I was posting from my phone this morning. (I really should avoid ampersands on there, as it always seems to do that, lol)

Basically, it should be simple to work out the hex modifiers from Sand Attack and Double Team's. (Granted, each has the opposite effect on the wrong Pokemon, but the basics are there).

IIRC, TVsIan originally said he was going to release the netbattle source code after they stopped developing it, but I don't recall ever seeing it on his site before it went down.

[WaterWizard]

I think lowering accuracy and raising evasion isn't healthy for any metagame.

Also, shouldn't Flash be saved for later to buff the electrics if needed?

I just noticed that Flash isn't on any of the pokemon with OHKOs and PT moves. So... if we can figure out the coding, we could make Flash boost the user's Accuracy by +2! That way, the Electric pokemon would be able to use Thunder with more confidence. If we can't do that easily, we can think of something else.

Also, I'm betting we'll need to take Mimic of of Mewtwo. I thought Icy and I had planned on removing that from the beginning, along with Rest and Recover, but maybe not... I think due to the way Mimic works in NBS, Mewtwo would have a pretty easy time mimicking Recover...

Again, I think the remaining unchanged moves might need to be saved for now, so we can use them to balance stuff out later. We still have a small pool that will make it pretty easy.

~

Beedril's and Butterfree's stats balanced again.

~

The more I read through these reviews, the more excited I get! some fantastic pokemon.

[t3h Icy]

I thought of an idea, but I'm not sure if it's a bit too powerful due to all the move boosts.

Metronome for universal move?

EDIT: Except maybe Onix and obviously Ditto, etc.