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Post by WaterWizard on Aug 29, 2011 11:29:08 GMT -8
-faster -ground attack -peck -haze -screech -monotyping
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 29, 2011 12:56:08 GMT -8
Faster only by 10 points, usually won't matter. Ground attack on a Water? Sure, it's good versus Electrics, but why don't you pick Blastoise in that case, for STAB EQ? I'll give you Peck, I forgot that. You don't need the priority a lot though with 308 speed, and 85 base non-STAB isn't a lot, even if it is coming from 308 attack. Haze won't be used by Seaking, or anyone else for that matter - you'll never want to include Haze unless the metagame revolves a lot around Amnesia users (RBY UU). Screech is cool I suppose. Tentacruel has that as well though, not to mention that he has Swords Dance... Monotyping is cool and everything, but Raichu has an additional resistance (Flying) and trades Electric weakness for Ground, which isn't too bad considering you're a Water pokemon.
Peck/Horn Attack/Surf/Hyper Beam OR an Ice move offers great type coverage but feels really forced on a Water pokemon. Send in a Water type with decent defense (and that's probably common, with Starmie, Lapras, Blastoise etc. being powerful) against it and it should fall short. If you ditch the Ice move for Hyper Beam or Screech, Dragons (...well, Gyarados/Dragonite) are also powerful against it.
IDK, I suppose Peck gives her what she needs through type coverage, but I am doubtful still.
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Post by WaterWizard on Aug 29, 2011 20:04:11 GMT -8
Yeah, we'll see how it goes. a 175 Horn Attack from 308 attack hits electrics hard, and Peck will hit grasses, bugs, and fightings hard. Seaking is still pretty experimental, but we think the mixed sweeper movepool/stats as well as the monotyping (only weak to grass and electric) should make Seaking pretty useful on certain teams. Screech is fairly essential.
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 25, 2011 4:37:01 GMT -8
Can't wait.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 25, 2011 5:20:26 GMT -8
Same. Even #pokemononline is hyped for this, partly at least. Btw, Quick Attack needs to go to 85 base or Flareon is broken
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 25, 2011 8:03:20 GMT -8
Flareon is walled by Ninetales, Omastar, Aerodactyl, and other Dragons/Ghosts/Rocks/Fires.
We'll see though lol
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Post by t3h Icy on Sept 25, 2011 8:45:12 GMT -8
WaterWizard and I were discussing hard counters and we think Raticate might be a bit impossible to stop, lol.
"We'll see"
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Post by WaterWizard on Sept 25, 2011 9:10:36 GMT -8
yeah there are plenty of options for that, when we start playing (such as removing Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Body Slam) and reducing HP so that he's 1HKO able by a lot of pokes or something.
nasty rat.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 4, 2011 7:51:11 GMT -8
BREAKING NEWS Bug is not very effective versus Ghosts, even in RBY. We all believe that Bug attacks were super effective vs. Ghosts because the game clearly told us so, but remember that attacks such as Mega Drain vs. Aerodactyl show as not very effective in-game.
Bugs therefore receive quite a nerf, but Ghosts gets EVEN better.
I suggest a general minor nerf in Defense on all Ghosts, or at least Gengar, who'll have a severely broken typing as mono-Ghost - being resistant to Bug and Poison, immune to Normal and Fighting and only weak to itself is ridic.
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Post by t3h Icy on Dec 4, 2011 11:05:24 GMT -8
Or we can just make Bug 1x vs Ghost.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 4, 2011 11:29:45 GMT -8
In PO? Is that even possible?
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Post by t3h Icy on Dec 4, 2011 11:34:15 GMT -8
Well we're ideally changing Ghost vs Psychic too.
It's sad that NBS has had that type match-up wrong all this time. I wonder if that ever cost anyone in Jolteon vs Gengar.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 4, 2011 11:46:34 GMT -8
Talking with ete at the moment. Good news, it's easy to change.
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Post by WaterWizard on Dec 4, 2011 18:40:48 GMT -8
We'll talk. I also need to update my write-ups and the stats spreadsheet so that everything is up to date. Icy and I will chat tomorrow or Tuesday night and get it all sorted out. thanks for the head's up, Isa! Good work.
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Post by t3h Icy on Dec 20, 2011 16:46:04 GMT -8
I've been discussing with WaterWizard some more small changes. First off, we and others felt Raticate, Flareon and Gengar were still a small gap above most Pokemon, and we're hoping we've fixed that. Ideally, we want to balance the triangle of fast Sleepers (Gengar/Butterfree), faster anti-leads (Aerodactyl/Golbat, etc), and anything else slower (Kabutops/Jynx/other awesome leads). We think that this helps keep everything together much better and ensures balance.
Also, we discussed the idea of buffing defensive Pokemon more, but we think that defensive Pokemon can be used late in the same way late sweepers work. Basically if a player uses Cloyster at the end of the game, and is not easily stopped, Cloyster can slowly sweep the opponents. So defensive Pokemon can still be viable, while keeping the theme of RBYPlus being more offensive and aggressive, just that defensive Pokemon are used as offensive tool. This is obviously theorycrafted and could be horribly wrong, so "we'll see".
Anyway, this is the latest changes:
Quick Attack base to 85 Super Fang accuracy to 85% Raticate Attack to 198 Raticate HP to 303 Raticate loses Blizzard, Body Slam, Counter, Ice Beam, Thunder, Thunderbolt Bug 1x vs Ghost Gengar HP to 203 Gengar Attack to 228 Gengar gains Thunder
And, since Pokemon Online will be having Stadium mechanics before in-game, while we've designed Plus to be for in-game, we'll have an "unofficial patch" that we use until PO updates with in-game mechanics:
Temporary Stadium-Settings Patch
-Substitute users: Venusaur, Tangela, Cloyster, Magneton, Onix, Weezing, Rhydon, Eggy, Parasect, Omastar, Porygon, Electrode -Hyper Beam/Bubblebeam to 100% Accuracy
During the stadium settings, some of those changes will inadvertently nerf some pokemon (like Wigglytuff), Sleepers all suffer, and Wrappers are nerfed more than we adjusted them to be, but we'll stick with it until we can use in-game mechanics. We figure that this will be okay since ideally, we'll be patching Plus anyway, so changes are expected to happen.
Any thoughts or anything, feel free to share!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 21, 2011 3:05:47 GMT -8
Super Fang accuracy to 85% Raticate Attack to 198 Raticate HP to 303 Raticate loses Blizzard, Body Slam, Counter, Ice Beam, Thunder, Thunderbolt Gengar HP to 203 Gengar Attack to 228
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
DUDE. Thos nerfs are WAAAAAAY too severe. I sincerely hope that 203 HP is just a typo and that it's supposed to be 303, which I could accept...but even so, the Raticate nerfs are absolutely extreme. Remember how Raticate was UU, not even BL, with 90% accurate Super Fang, 260 attack, 218 defense (he now has 198) 313 HP and access to Body Slam? Do you think he suddenly springs to OU despite those nerfs by just gaining higher speed and boosted flinch moves?
Seriously? Raticate is suddenly NU, with very little HP, very little defenses and now very little attack, only having very high speed (but he's still outspeeded by some). What Pokémon takes 50% damage from what's essentially a Hyper Beam coming from regular Exeggutor? Okay, possibly Alakazam and Jynx, but that's probably it and those take more damage from Hyper Fang either way. This guy won't be able to KO anything before he dies, and is hard-countered by Lickitung (just like previously) by only having access to Bubble from 198 special and Toxic to hurt him now.
...it's like you want him to rely on flinches and flinches only to get this guy a kill, when he's easily put in by a single Thunder Wave or Recover user. Or Lickitung. Give him back at least 90% accuracy on Super Fang. 198 attack is too little. Buff him back to at least 238, preferably 248. But remember that even with that, he deals less damage than previously. Give him back at least Body Slam to give him some means of causing paralysis, so that he's not essentially dead himself should he face paralysis.
If you think that all of these nerfs are needed in order to balance his high speed, nerf that instead of making him a one-move wonder - and even THAT one is weaker than in regular RBY.
Super Fang Mew > Raticate. Add Spore (can be replaced with Amnesia), Thunder Wave and Headbutt, and you have a better Pokemon with higher stats in everything but speed, but it doesn't matter because Mew can inflict paralysis on his own.
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Post by WaterWizard on Dec 21, 2011 11:20:00 GMT -8
You're underestimating 348 speed. That is all he needed in RBY. Well, that, and being able to hit ghosts. Which he can now with Hyper Fang. His crit rate is now higher than Zam. I would like to give him 100% accurate Super Fang, but leave him with the nerfed stats. He will be able to wreck pokemon. Consider that he can come in on a wall and take it down to 50% in one turn, 25% in two. And with that high crit rate and STAB (and Mew can't get either of those) he can finish people off with Hyper Beam, even with that low attack level.
I would like to see Super Fang be 100% accurate. I don't see any reason to change the other stuff, at least not yet. I believe he'll be a menace.
Gengar's HP dropped 70 points because he was still too good. But even now, he is only 1HKO'd by ghosts and like a small handful of other pokemon (Rhydon, Kabutops, Kingler, Pinsir). He attacks ghosts first though. Gengar has incredible typing and is the fastest sleeper. he also happens to nearly 1HKO Butterfree so he will kind of scare her off. We don't want another automatic entry on every team. I support the Gengar nerfs. But again, we may need to change things after we try stuff out on PO.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Feb 25, 2012 21:31:28 GMT -8
Okay folks! It's not too hard to modify effect chances, so I should be able to step outside of RBY barriers now.
What do we want? 30% confusion chance? 30% for a Defense drop? Maybe 20%? Tell me what you want and for what moves, and I'll add it. (Personally I'd like to see 30% chance of a Defense drop used)
I'm pretty much waiting for this, and then I am ready to release.
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Post by t3h Icy on Feb 26, 2012 0:38:15 GMT -8
Just do with the original plans, and maybe we'll figure stuff out after. Just so that we at least have a base to work with for now.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Feb 26, 2012 0:58:07 GMT -8
Alright. I'll just fix some last minute bugs then (Barrage is a multi-hit OHKO move with 200 base at the moment) and after that we'll talk about release dates.
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Post by WaterWizard on Feb 26, 2012 21:44:20 GMT -8
Sweet, yeah use the 30s as cited in the moves page I made. Confusion and defense iirc.
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