Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 8, 2010 0:14:36 GMT -8
It'd like to also have 2 BL per team. Also a good test would be 4-5 UU and 1-2 BL versus 6 UU to see if the 1-2 BLs stack the outcome in the BL/UU team's favor a lot.
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 8, 2010 0:17:39 GMT -8
can you rephrase that last post, under. i'm not sure what you mean.
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 8, 2010 0:19:34 GMT -8
xD, I used "UU" when I meant BL lol. I meant 2 BL per team in UU. Try that and also 1 BL and 5 UU versus 6 UU to see if you can still win a reasonable amount of the time with 6 UU.
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 8, 2010 0:21:27 GMT -8
yeah, that's what i was thinking. 1 BL per match. take turns using a BL on your team; the foe uses all current UUs.
i'm fairly certain Sandslash and Kangy won't centralize. especially if they move down together. Kingler/Kabutops might help out w/ this.
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 8, 2010 0:26:30 GMT -8
Well, that's the slippery slope. The entry of one BL into UU might necessitate the entry of BLs to counter the old BLs. The entry and testing of each BL should ideally be done one at a time to hold all other variables constant.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 8, 2010 1:56:50 GMT -8
The problem is that the word "centralize" is very relative. Sandslash will make Electabuzz a lot less common for example (taking around 25% from Psychic and KOing back with EQ); and without Electabuzz and with Sandslash there will be a lot of more waters (if is possible). It is a possible movement however. It along with Nidos and Kang would make a much more offensive metagame. Moltres to UU (nothing on Charizard) Kabutops to UU (usage) Arcanine to NU (usage) Blastoise and Porygon?
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 9, 2010 13:06:37 GMT -8
moved Arty and Jolt, as per the overwhelming support of such. Kabutops seems to be used pretty often in UU, and can do the job (though I still don't see how it's better than Kingler). put in italics to mark recent change.
edit: put maggy back in NU. sorry for the premature move. i've been off the UU scene for a while, and seeing him in the finals, i assumed he was being used.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 10, 2010 2:25:13 GMT -8
WW, you can't move Magneton to UU, because it has only been used in a tournament battle. Spies is the only one that have used it.
However Kabutops is moved because, it has also been using some other times (obviously not the same as Poliwrath, but for example Persian isn't as used as Chansey in OU anyway).
And I will repeat: MOLTRES TO UU AND ARCANINE TO NU.
|
|
Inf
Member
Posts: 26
|
Post by Inf on Jun 10, 2010 10:42:07 GMT -8
Yeah, do not move a pokémon just because it was used in finales. And you have to ask to other players what they think about one pokémon or another. In my opinion, a vote/poll would be the best solution.
|
|
|
Post by posthuman on Jun 10, 2010 11:07:40 GMT -8
We can vote after some testing is done. Nobody can assume how each Pokémon affects the metagame of each tier. Does Moltres centralize UU? Probably not, but why don't we test it?
I also agree that one or two matches with a certain Pokémon from a tier below (say, NU Pokémon in the UU tourney) doesn't qualify it to be in the tier, but they should at least be considered. It's similar to something like Cloyster. He can turn an OU game around, but that doesn't mean he's OU, just sometimes useful in OU.
Don't forget WW that in the UU Grand Finals Tournament, Dexter was attempting to counter spies' earlier team, and spies may have been doing the same for Dexter. This doesn't make the Pokémon they used UU.
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 10, 2010 19:07:14 GMT -8
so, with a 5 tier system, do ya'll see any pokes that need to be moved?
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 10, 2010 20:59:47 GMT -8
Ill put in down in the Disputed Placement List
|
|
|
Post by GGFan on Jun 13, 2010 12:28:34 GMT -8
Maybe it's time to move Rhydon to BL.
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 14, 2010 0:35:40 GMT -8
Yeah, that's already on the Disputed Placement List. Also, what about Slowbro?
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 14, 2010 3:11:33 GMT -8
Both Rhydon and Slowbro ARE OU, because they are used enough there. And lol, Jolteon and Articuno are OU, and do you want Rhydon and Slowbro to be UU/BL?!?! You are going to see a lot of more times Don and Bro than Jolt / Art in OU!!!
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 14, 2010 4:54:30 GMT -8
I'm asking whether they would be broken in BL, that's all. IF they weren't, then I'd suggest moving them to BL so they would be allowed there. The main thing is that we should probably test it. Something like 1 OU and 5 BL and see if Bro and Rhydon dominate or not. Also, where did Flareon go? It's missing from the tiers
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 14, 2010 10:06:55 GMT -8
lol, the problem is that they are used enough in OU to be OU, no matter if they are not too powerful for BL. And BTW, they are two of the most common pokes in Smogon, and there are RBY in Smogon too. And Flareom in NU.
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 14, 2010 10:38:08 GMT -8
If they have a lot of usage in OU, then they will almost certainly be too powerful for BL. If they are too powerful for BL, it will probably have some usage in OU and thus should be placed in OU.
But what about Vaporeon? Vaporeon has some usage in BL, but does that mean it should be BL and not UU? No. It doesn't break UU. My argument is that if it doesn't break BL, then it should be BL.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 14, 2010 11:04:36 GMT -8
This should be true most of the time but is not always. For example imagine a poke like a Starmie but with 84 base Def as the only difference. Nobody would use it (i dont think using 2 starmies is a good idea unlike say, using 2 tauros). It would be too poweful for BL but... does not have usage in OU. And lol, think in Kadabra!!
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 15, 2010 4:50:20 GMT -8
So then keep the lesser Starmie clone pokemon in OU anyway so that it doesn't unbalance BL. It's the same reason why Poliwhirl is in UU. He won't be used in UU at all, but he unbalances NU so we keep him in UU to balance and protect NU.
What so bad about having pokemon in a tier even if they are not going to be used that much in that tier's competitive metagame? If that pokemon is going to be too powerful for all the tiers below it, then don't put it in those those tiers. Tiers should work for us to avoid having overly powerful pokemon in lower tiers. So keep Poliwhirl in UU.
If you think Poliwhirl should be NU, then we should test him in NU. If we test it, and find out for sure that he unbalances NU, then he should be moved back to UU and kept there even though he isn't used in UU.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 15, 2010 10:02:45 GMT -8
Have not you noticed that I am proposing to move Poliwhirl to NU?
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 15, 2010 11:03:37 GMT -8
Okay, we should test Poliwhirl in NU. If he overpowers, then he stays in UU. Is that not reasonable?
|
|
|
Post by GGFan on Jun 15, 2010 11:17:44 GMT -8
Both Rhydon and Slowbro ARE OU, because they are used enough there. And lol, Jolteon and Articuno are OU, and do you want Rhydon and Slowbro to be UU/BL?!?! You are going to see a lot of more times Don and Bro than Jolt / Art in OU!!! Please, Rhydon is almost never used. Hell, I doubt he'd even break BL.
|
|
Underboss
Member
Rock On Kadabra!!!
Posts: 212
|
Post by Underboss on Jun 15, 2010 11:21:24 GMT -8
Well, if he does break BL, then he should be moved back to OU even if he is never used. Anyone wanna test it?
|
|
|
Post by LolitaCute on Jun 15, 2010 19:33:25 GMT -8
Funny how nobody uses Rhydon anymore, before it was the other way around.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal_ on Jun 16, 2010 6:20:08 GMT -8
lol, and Articuno?
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 16, 2010 13:17:19 GMT -8
OU is the synthesis of usefulness and usage. Rhydon is useful, and used fairly often. He stands in contrast to someone like Kingler, who is fairly useful, and rarely used. Jolteon and Articuno are very useful, and used fairly often. I value them, along with Slowbro, more than Rhydon and Jynx.
|
|
|
Post by GGFan on Jun 17, 2010 9:25:55 GMT -8
I've never even seen anyone here use Rhydon.
|
|
|
Post by Dexter on Jun 17, 2010 10:09:50 GMT -8
crystal uses it, spies uses it, both great OU battlers. I myself wouldn't be against using it, I just haven't built a team with it that has good enough synergy to use it over golem
|
|
|
Post by WaterWizard on Jun 17, 2010 10:20:30 GMT -8
Rhydon can beat a non-Surfing Starmie on the switch. Once Eggy is out of the way, no one is safe switching into Rhydon.
|
|